Capital Region Family Business Center: Navigating Family Dynamics in Multi-Generational Companies

Justin Horner: [00:00:00] Family dynamics is often at the center of it. You're trying to run a business and run your family and the two are inextricably linked. Talking about business at dinner, on vacation, and you're talking about family stuff at work. They come together all the time. Naturally, it's just how do you live those two lives because they're gonna be intermingled and it's gotta be a good marriage.

The family's gotta rely on the business. The business has to rely on the family, and so there's a plethora of dynamics that are involved in that.

Jeff Holden: Welcome to the Nonprofit Podcast Network. Our purpose and passion are simple to highlight the incredible nonprofits that make our communities stronger. Each episode is a chance for these organizations to tell their story in their words, sharing not just what they do, but why it matters. To the people they serve, to their supporters, and to all of us who believe in the power of community.

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Today's conversation sits at the intersection of legacy, leadership and intentional transition or not, and it's one I've really been looking forward to sharing. My guests are Maggie Bender and Justin Horner from the Capital Region Family Business Center, [00:02:00] an organization that exists to support, educate, and connect family owned businesses across generations.

If you've ever been part of a family business or worked closely with one, you know how complex that journey can be. Business decisions don't stay at the office. They follow you to the dinner table, family gatherings, and sometimes across decades. Before we dive in, I wanna be fully transparent. We also produce a seat at the table, the podcast for the Family Business Center.

That relationship matters to disclose. But more importantly, it's given me a front row seat to the kind of thoughtful, honest conversations This organization fosters among families navigating succession, governance and growth. This episode is particularly special because it marks a leadership transition.

Maggie is stepping down after four years as president and Justin is stepping into the role If you're part of a family business. Serve one or simply want to [00:03:00] understand how legacy organizations endure and involve this conversation is for you. 

Justin Horner: Maggie Bender. Justin Horner, welcome to the Nonprofit Podcast Network.

Thank you very much for having us. 

Maggie Bender: Yeah, thank you. 

Justin Horner: I'm 

Jeff Holden: really excited, but in full transparency here. You are a nonprofit, the Capital Region Family Business Center is a nonprofit, and you have a wonderful story to tell, and we're gonna get to that in just a minute. But I want our listeners to know that we also produce your podcast.

You have a podcast called A Seat at the Table, and it is for the Family Business Center. Mm-hmm. And we'll talk a little bit more about that as we get going. So I needed to share that upfront so it doesn't look. What is he talking about? He's referring to something we don't know what he's talking about.

Scott Thomas: Right. 

Jeff Holden: Let's talk about the organization. Mm-hmm. Maggie, could you give us an overview of what it is the Family Business center really is and does? 

Maggie Bender: Absolutely. So the, we exist to support, [00:04:00] educate, and connect family businesses across generations, and we have been in existence since 2007, and we have close to a hundred members of varying sizes of family businesses and then the professional services that support them.

Do you wanna add to that? 

Justin Horner: Yeah. I mean, the, the purpose of the organization, in my mind is to, like you, when you think about owning a business and just being an entrepreneur, generally, it's a, it's a big lift, right? There's a lot going on. Mm-hmm. Inside of a business, you've got all your customers, all your suppliers, all your employees, their families.

There's a lot of people that you're trying to bring together to connect, to make something happen, and then you layer onto that this time horizon, that's theoretically infinite. If you're a family business and you want to succeed from generation to generation, and you layer in. All the potential family dynamics, the arguments, the disagreements, the misalignment between generations, the different ideas of what the company should become.

And it's a, there's just a lot of complexity there. [00:05:00] And so as an organization, I think our biggest goal is to. Create a network for people to get together, for family businesses, to understand what other companies do, how they've solved complicated problems, and hopefully know those people before their own problems come up so that when they do, they have people to reach out to, a network to rely on and hopefully a good educational base that can shortcut that problem solving.

Jeff Holden: And as you're listening to this discussion, you may be wondering why there's two people here and it's a really unique situation. I think we've only done this once before where there was a transition. Of. People. And Maggie, you are the outgoing president after four years? Yes. For the organization. And Justin, you're the incoming president?

Yeah. How long have you been with the organization in total? Uh, 

Maggie Bender: I, my family's business, bender Insurance Solutions was one of the founding family businesses. And so. I've been involved since even before 2007. In fact, I was the first volunteer, so I was doing all the admin [00:06:00] with the name tags and outreach.

That was grammar school outreach invites. No early twenties, but thank you. Yes. So I've been on the board for nine years, almost as long as Justin. Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: And then you just answered it, so, so nine years for you as well, Justin? 

Justin Horner: Yeah. So I joined about 10 years ago, the beginning of 2016. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. 

Justin Horner: And I started out on some committees as volunteering time and trying to help out, and eventually took over the Generations conference, which I think we'll talk about in a little bit.

Yes. And then became a board member and then vice president, now president. So, 

Jeff Holden: well, congratulations. Yeah. 

Justin Horner: Thank you. 

Jeff Holden: So what we're going to have is a bit of this transition and release of. Authority and power. 

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: For the group right to, to Justin, which I really appreciate because rarely do you see situations where organizations are intentional about that transition.

Somebody usually leaves, you know, and all of a sudden now you're stuck with what do I do? Who do who, who's gonna be stepping up [00:07:00] into the president role or the CEO role, or the executive director, whatever it may be. It's wonderful when you know that it's planned. 

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: And it's intentional so that everybody's prepared and there's no surprises.

And with both of you having almost, you know, 10 years of tenure on the board, even better. So congratulations and compliments to you for handling it in such an appropriate way. 

Justin Horner: We've had a great history of phenomenal presence that have come before us too, that set this stage for us. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

Justin Horner: So we're following in, in amazing footsteps and we, we benefit from a lot of history 

Jeff Holden: and I, I need to address something, Maggie, because it's, it's really neat that it happened this way.

The podcast that we produce for the Family Business Center. A seat at the table was born about three years ago, a little over three years ago. The first episode was your father. 

Scott Thomas: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: And your father was talking about his transition out of leadership of the family business, the insurance [00:08:00] business. That, you know, one of his daughters was gonna be moving in and at the time he's disclosing that in the podcast.

It wasn't completely done in the office. 

Maggie Bender: No, I took, we took over as CEO probably three, four months later. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

Maggie Bender: And I thank you for capturing his story because I will always cherish that. It means so much to me. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, and I think that's one of the beautiful things about that particular podcast is so many families come in and share these stories.

They become legacy pieces. That Patriarch, matriarch, or full family is in, and we've had three generations of family in here. Mm-hmm. You know, talking about, you know, what the situation was back in the day with the youngest going, well, grandpa, come on. It wasn't like that. And that's just one of the beautiful things of family businesses.

Justin Horner: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: As you look at the organization today, the Family Business center, what are some of those issues that come up? What are some of the biggest pressing issues that you hear from the families? 

Justin Horner: There's a lot. [00:09:00] It's, it's complex. I mean, family dynamics is often at the center of it. You're trying to run a business and run your family and the two are inextricably linked.

Mm-hmm. You're talking about business at dinner, on vacation, and you're talking about family stuff at work. It just, they, they come together all the time. So naturally it's just how do you live those two lives? Because they're gonna be intermingled and it's gotta be a good marriage. Just like hopefully the, you know.

All the adults in the in the family business have solid marriages with people they can rely on. The family's gotta rely on the business. The business has to rely on the family, and so there's a plethora of dynamics that are involved in that. I think another thing that comes up frequently is that. The, by the time you start hitting kind of late second generation into third generation, the business is very, very different than what it started as.

It's a lot easier to manage a smaller startup business as it's going, and maybe it started in good times where the economy was great. Inevitably, by the time you hit end of second gen into third gen, there's been economic cycles. The [00:10:00] business has grown a lot. The complexity is a lot different than it used to be.

There's more people in decision making roles that all have to get along. Managing that can be. Challenging. 

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

Justin Horner: Figuring out how to do things like just even just manage tax consequences of family members when they die, and if there's assets in the business, what are you gonna owe? How to manage that.

How to prepare for it so that it's not a surprise. Sometimes the numbers can get quite large and it's intimidating for families when they start staring down the barrel of, uh, 7, 8, 9 figure tax bill and they. They've been putting money back into the business their entire lives. They don't, they don't have an extra nine figure check sitting around.

Right. But they might be required to write one. And so understanding, you know, how to prepare for that. Who are the best resources, who's done it before? You know, how do you pay what you owe, but not overpay, 

Jeff Holden: right? Things like 

Justin Horner: that. 

Jeff Holden: And I would imagine not only that situation amongst the family members themselves for.

Collaboration and support. Mm-hmm. And conversation because somebody might have experienced it, but [00:11:00] also access to the people who might be able to help the best way. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Because of the history the organization has in town. 

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: You know, you absolutely. You've been around for a while. 

Justin Horner: Exactly. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. That, that could be pretty frightening.

And then you realize, oh my gosh, you only way we can do this is sell assets or sell the company. 

Justin Horner: Right, 

Jeff Holden: which I'm sure is some of part of the conversation at points in time. 

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And there's a ton of emotion tied up in any of those decisions. One, it's hard to talk about death and the, the concept of losing a family member, especially somebody that's sort of set up, it was the, you know, they're the leader of the family, right?

They're the leader of the business. And to lose somebody, like that's hard to talk about anyways, and then you bring money into it. A lot of people have a, have difficulty talking about money and talking about where to. You know, how, how to manage that. It's also not a very exciting topic to talk about. For most people, they want to go run their business and do the things that give them energy.

And, and maybe it's, you know, working with the employees, maybe it's producing a product, but it's probably not dealing with what are my future tax consequences. Right, right. So it's an easy one to kick down the road. 'cause emotionally it's hard to get into and then it's [00:12:00] not very fun. And so it's easy to, to push off, but.

It's, it's nice that our organization can be just a little bit of a reminder for people. It's like, Hey, it's easier if you get started early, then it's not gonna be, you know, the six month rush right at the end when suddenly something gone wrong. 

Jeff Holden: And that's a unique situation because for an individual who is a family business, let's say it's a second or third generation family business, they're not involved or don't have a peer group to bounce ideas off or concerns and things that are pending or impending.

Mm-hmm. Without that, you'd be really in a void. You'd have to trust somebody you're paying. Yeah. Whereas in this sort of a situation, you have the ability to trust somebody you can trust. Yes. Mm-hmm. Because they've been there. And if they're gonna share with you, you've got that implied. Trust between the organizations and boy we've been through that.

We remember when dad passed away, we had that situation. I know exactly what it's like, here's what we did, or here's who we spoke to. [00:13:00] So that is just a huge deal. I can imagine for many of the, many of the members and for the newest members who are the new family businesses coming up, they have that experience and intellectual equity of the families that have been through it before.

Bounce ideas off or mentorship or whatever, 

Justin Horner: right. We have a phenomenal set of technical members, so they're non-family businesses that provide services to, to families, and they've all been pre-vetted, which is nice. It's, it shortens the process of trying to figure out who, who might be best to work with.

Mm-hmm. And there's also some like social consequence, if they do a bad job, it's all in this organization and everyone's gonna hear about it. Yeah. So the likelihood of somebody treating you badly or not, not taking your problem seriously. Is real relatively low. And so among the group of technical advisors we have, there's often a few competitors in there.

So you have choices, but everyone's gonna treat you well. Everyone's been vetted, they'll have their heart in the right place. So 

Jeff Holden: yeah, 

Justin Horner: it's, it helps that a lot. 

Jeff Holden: I never [00:14:00] even thought about the consequence. Of a poor job. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Because when you have a hundred plus family businesses and some as we'll share in a few minutes, some of these names, we know those names.

Mm-hmm. You do not want those names talking badly. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: About whatever it is you do or did. 

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: That wouldn't be favorable to your business. 

Justin Horner: Right. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. That's a little bit of power there. Yeah. And, and, and the value that that vendor brings to the organization. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. Very neat. You have an event that comes up every year.

It's gonna be in first quarter. Mm-hmm. Going forward, called generations. That's a pretty intense day for these family businesses. Tell us a little bit about what that is. 

Justin Horner: Yeah, so Generations is a family business conference where we try to get multiple generations of the same families together all in one room with a full day of phenomenal well-known keynote speakers, and then a series of breakout sessions where the main group of around 300 attendees can then break off into smaller groups and learn about something specific that they choose.

[00:15:00] And the purpose of it is to really take kind of a hard educational approach to a single day and get everyone in the same room, not only networking with each other and getting to know each other, but also having relevant takeaways they can take away immediately and apply to their family business the next day, but also hopefully keep, uh, you know, a few things in the back of their head so that the next time something comes up.

They remember from generations that, Hey, I learned about that five years ago. I know who the right people to talk to are. 

Jeff Holden: Maggie, having been president for the last four years, have there been any generation events that you said, boy, that was, something really came out of that, that as president of the organization that you could leverage?

Forward to say, wow, that that was this, or, 

Maggie Bender: absolutely we identify additional programs that would be appropriate, that would be able to build on, or what we learned at generations. I think the tie and connection back to our [00:16:00] organization gets stronger. We encourage family businesses to bring multiple people from the organization.

So you have multiple generations learning together, hearing the same thing, being able to take that back and apply it to their business. And so we've, we've also been very lucky to have many of our keynote speakers join later because they saw all the value in our organization. So I, I think. Something that we've learned is, generations used to be a two day conference, which was fabulous, but it's, it's a lot of work to run your family business.

And so we, we took, we got the input and we've reformatted it to be a one day event and just make it that much more impactful. And that's, that's, we've gotten some really great feedback. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. And I like what you said with regard to. All the members or as many members of the family as you can get in because you know, some of the younger ones are now exposed, whereas before it might have just been founder, [00:17:00] mother, father, patriarch, matriarch, whatever that was.

They go and they bring it back. If they're engaged from the beginning, you know how much better. Mm-hmm. And, and I'm sure you see now, funny, it's called generations, but you see generations of familial involvement in the event where. The founders are passed and you have second and third generations now coming in because second came in when founder was there, and now you have third coming in when second is running the organization, which has to be really.

Rewarding and informative too for everybody that participates. 

Maggie Bender: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, so like Justin said, he was one of the key leaders to make generations a success, so I'm curious what, how you would answer that question. 

Justin Horner: Yeah, I think the, the stories I've heard where people have taken something away from generations and applied it immediately and is often around governance and the ways to make decisions often that you can get gridlock with.

Family members and governance, and sometimes you've got outside folks that may have a different view or have a risk, different risk [00:18:00] profile than the existing management of the business. I think a lot of families are afraid to kill the golden goose. Like it's the thing that's keeping 'em alive. And sometimes it feels better to just say like, eh, let's, let's kick a decision out ways we don't need to decide right now.

We can think about this in the future. But not making a decision is a decision in and of itself. Yes. And so, and there's risks associated with not making a decision. Yep. And so there's been some better governance ideas that have come out of specific keynote from generations that I think have helped a lot of family businesses unlock some of that potential among their board and how to make decisions and then move forward appropriately.

Jeff Holden: I can only imagine some of the conversations post generations. 

Maggie Bender: Oh yeah. 

Jeff Holden: At that family. Business, either office or kitchen table. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Whereas you know, you heard this, what are we gonna do about it? Now we have to do something about it. And we know that prolonging it is not a good idea. Right. 

Maggie Bender: Well, some don't even wait until they get home.

They will have the families go out to a nice dinner afterwards and let's. Debrief on what we learned or we've even have [00:19:00] had families use some of the space in the conference center to bring their family together and have discussions. 

Jeff Holden: That's fantastic. I 

Maggie Bender: love it. 

Jeff Holden: I do too. That's a family business. We don't have to go through a corporate decision.

We don't have to take it back and then go through a lot of wading through process. Yeah. Somebody's gonna make a decision right away. And in many cases, that's the way family businesses became successful because that decision was made. Now. 

Maggie Bender: Yes. 

Jeff Holden: We didn't have a a chance. And you talk about risk and risk averse, certainly the second and third generations tend to be a little more conservative because they don't want to kill the golden goose.

Right? But kudos to those that continue that aggressive posture. Appropriately. 

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. 

Jeff Holden: Which I imagine a lot of that comes outta generations. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. Yeah. And I think another benefit to having multiple generations in the room at that event is that like anything, you put a few people in one place looking at one thing, everyone's gonna take something different away from it, right?

They're all gonna hear something or something's gonna stick, and so you've got more. Smart minds seeing the same thing, taking it away, and then kind of [00:20:00] discovering how that's gonna work best in their family business. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

Justin Horner: And so it's a great way to involve even some of the younger folks they may be in, in college or high school and they're just sort of understanding the business.

Starting to think more like business people and they're gonna have things that they take away that, you know, the senior members of the family may not, but they still gotta be a part of it in that discussion later. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. How fun to have all those people in a room together. Yeah. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: So that's, that's kind of neat.

All sorts of businesses are involved, all sorts of family dynamics, all sorts of family history, multi-generational companies like Tyer and Pacific Coast building to more contemporary companies like Subsea Systems. Who are some of the, maybe the up and coming, the newer younger generation business family businesses that you might see.

In the organization. There are all kinds. 

Maggie Bender: So one that comes to mind is Z. Specialty Foods. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. Yes. 

Maggie Bender: They're great. You're familiar with 

Jeff Holden: them? We are. Because they actually did a podcast episode for a seat at the table. 

Maggie Bender: [00:21:00] Yes. So they, their product is Honey and Mead and they are bee experts and bee advocates, and they're in Woodland and they've created this really phenomenal space and we've been able to host events there and we've never had a business like that before.

Jeff Holden: Now, and we, I can attest in the studio for your podcast, we've never had one like that. The story is incredible. I'm gonna leave it there because I want somebody to go to listen to it at the seat at the table, but it's an, an amazing story mm-hmm. Of, of how the family came together when it looked dismal.

Justin Horner: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: And in this case the matriarch. 

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: You know, on, on board who shared the story. 

Maggie Bender: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: So very, very interesting. 

Maggie Bender: Most of us are students of business and so this is a lot of geeking out over, oh wow, you do it this way. Show me how you do that. Like you spoke about sub C systems, that is such a cool business, and they opened up.

Their business to our [00:22:00] membership to do a tour and people brought their swimming suits to just really experience it. Yeah. And that's, that's so special. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. That's any of those, and I'm sure. Z. 

Maggie Bender: Z, 

Jeff Holden: specialty Z specialties. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Come explore the honey. Oh yeah. They, they invited everybody. So generous.

Everybody podcast come out and, and see what it's all about. I had no idea. Honey was like, you know, olive oil or wine tasting. Sure. They have all these different variations of honey depending on where it originated from. Mm-hmm. And that's the exposure I think that people get through an organization like yours.

You wouldn't normally do that. You wouldn't normally interface with somebody. No. That's so disparate from where you're. You know, core competencies are for your business, but there's probably some operational piece that they do that would easily transfer into something else. Yeah. Or, or vice versa, subsea systems and, and or even a Ty or Pacific Coast where you have somebody of that significance that they've been around a while.

Mm-hmm. You know, they could learn something or they could [00:23:00] share. Either way, 

Maggie Bender: especially in the Fi family dynamic area, because a business like mine, it's hard to think, how am I gonna relate to someone like Pacific Coast building products, a billion dollar organization. Right? But even though they're so sophisticated and successful, they, they will still have family dynamic issues like the rest of us.

Yeah. And so it's, it's really nice to get support from a variety of businesses and friends. 

Jeff Holden: Tell me about collaborative efforts that you've got with the organization. Who do you collaborate with? Who are some of the other people that you might reach out to or who would be of value in the. The actual contribution to family businesses.

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. So we're always looking for interesting topics that are relevant to the, to the families that are members of our organization. And so often we're looking for people that have best practices around governance, have best practices around conflict management, around tax planning and [00:24:00] strategy.

There's a million legal issues and HR issues, especially when you get family members that are employees that are especially non-owner family members. Mm-hmm. There's some uniqueness there and you know, so we're, we're always looking in addition to our technical advisor members who cut across financial services insurance.

Wealth management, all kinds of stuff. There's all these other organizations as well that we'll be pulling in occasionally to try to learn best practices. How are things changing? You know, if there's laws that are changing, it's important to know that we work closely with the Family Business Association, which we're distinct and separate from.

They do primarily 

Jeff Holden: lobby 

Justin Horner: lobbying. Yes, advocacy. The other L word. 

Jeff Holden: Yes. 

Justin Horner: Um, so yeah, they're, they're focused on the, on the political aspect of things. We try to stay, you know, arm's length from politics. We do have members that overlap, but to the extent somebody's interested in that world, they can, you know, get connected with the FBA 

Jeff Holden: and they're a, uh, a nonprofit as well.

That obviously makes sense. 

Scott Thomas: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: And it makes [00:25:00] sense to be separate as well. 

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: You can see where that would get. Cloudy in your space versus what they do because they're more on the political side of things, you know, where you're more on the operational and functional side of things for the families and, and the day to day.

Reality of a family business where that's looking out quite a ways in some cases. 

Maggie Bender: Mm-hmm. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. And I think some, some businesses want to stay apolitical. Mm-hmm. As much as they can. They don't want to get kind of caught up in that, in that world. And so I think if we were to trend towards something more political, we might alienate some members that really just want have best practices on business execution, multi-generational transitions and all the other issues that come with being a family business, leaving the politics out of it.

Leaving that to the individuals or other family businesses that have a passion for that world. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, that makes sense. Chambers of commerce, where they have, mm-hmm. Okay. So another group of nonprofits, of which we have many because you have family businesses all around. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: You know, the, the region. 

Justin Horner: Is there a, a geographic 

Jeff Holden: designation that you service [00:26:00] 

Justin Horner: to some degree?

I mean, you can sort of think about it from Chico down to Stockton and, you know, in Northern California. 

Okay. 

Justin Horner: Effectively, probably East Bay coming this way. We have some members in Southern California. We have some people that travel in from across the country for generations, so we have some reach. I think longer term there's opportunity to expand further, but for right now we're primarily at Northern California footprint.

Jeff Holden: Lemme give you an opportunity to share a little bit in just a minute too. Yeah. Are there any family business, nonprofits involved? Just off 

Maggie Bender: the top of my head, I don't think we have any current members, but I, I have come across nonprofits that were ran by families. 

Jeff Holden: Yes. I'm, I'm familiar with a few. That's why I was wondering.

I wonder, just out of curiosity, since you know, we're a non-profit program, 

Maggie Bender: we'd love an introduction to them to invite them to be 

Jeff Holden: members. Sure. More and I think they could benefit from what. Because people perceive nonprofits as something different. Mm-hmm. They're a business and if they aren't run like a business, they don't succeed.

Yeah. So they have all the same issues, they [00:27:00] have all the same problems, and then they have an exacerbated element because of that 5 0 1 C3 status. Right. Which requires a lot more documentation. Yes. You know, and paperwork, unlike a, a regular business that doesn't have to, you know, go through all that qualification.

Mm-hmm. 

Scott Thomas: Like any good business, family or 

Jeff Holden: not, they need support, and ours comes from the following companies. 

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Jeff Holden: If you're interested in learning more about how CORE may help your organization, visit CXO r.com. 

Scott Thomas: Hello, this is Scott [00:29:00] Thomas with CAPTRUST in our Sacramento office. I specialize in working with local nonprofits and associations annually. We survey private and public nonprofit organizations across the country to better understand challenges they see in today's environment.

In our more recent survey, we hear concerns about proper board governance, mission aligned investment, and how to implement alternative investments. If you would like a copy of the survey or do discuss your organization, look me up, scottThomas@captrust.com 

Jeff Holden: at Western Health Advantage. Healthcare isn't just a service, it's a shared value.

As a nonprofit leader, you need a health plan that understands the important of mission-driven work. Western Health Advantage is a local not-for-profit health plan that supports organizations like yours with affordable, flexible coverage options for your team. But what truly sets them apart is their commitment to community supporting nonprofits like the American Heart [00:30:00] Association, Sacramento Ballet, and the Crocker Art Museums.

Pay what you Wish Sundays with access to top tier providers and dedicated local support. Western Health Advantage is more than a health plan. It's a partner in your purpose. Explore your options today@westernhealth.com. Western Health Advantage Healthcare with Heart, designed for those who give back. 

James Beckwith: How about funding?

How is the organization funded? 

Justin Horner: Yeah, member dues. Okay. Al almost exclusively. So we have our family and business members. We have our technical advisor members, and then we offer sponsorships for events. Generations doesn't kind of, we shoot for that to break even because we want it to be as, as accessible as possible.

So we don't want overcharge for tickets or overcharge for sponsorships. Our goal there is to try to. Produce the best event we can. And then through the year as we get, we collect our dues, that sets our budget. With that budget, we then go and execute and create the best program that we can. 

Jeff Holden: So obviously the more businesses [00:31:00] that you have, the more you can provide.

Yes. More you can give back. 

Justin Horner: Yes. 

Jeff Holden: And you are actually run a little bit uniquely to the board, the leadership part of it, but the operational part, you don't, you don't have an employee per se. You use an organization to manage everything, which is right. In some cases a really good way to go because you don't have that liability of overhead.

Justin Horner: Exactly right. Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. It's a little more cost efficient because they, an association management firm has all the structure and so they can provide all the same services at a high quality. They see other organizations and how they're operated, how they host events, and just the most efficient ways to do things.

They can bring all those great ideas back to ours at a lower price. Mm-hmm. And so from our perspective, we get kind of. Top tier leadership, administrative execution, but without the price tag that comes with having a dedicated employee works well. And 

Jeff Holden: the state of California just loves employees and they keep finding ways to make you pay more for them, right?

Justin Horner: Exactly. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: So Justin, [00:32:00] this is going to be your organization or when is the transition? 

Maggie Bender: Oh, 

Jeff Holden: it's happened. It's happened. It's happened, yeah. Okay. So currently you are currently the president. 

Justin Horner: Sir, 

Jeff Holden: if somebody said you've got all these family businesses, they said, Hey, look, Justin, we've got a blank check for you.

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: We want you to really take this thing and, and, and blow it up. Yep. You know, what would you do with it? What would it look like if. You didn't have the limitations of budget restrictions? 

Justin Horner: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. I would probably lead with great programming, so I'd try to find the world's best speakers on certain topics, the most engaging speakers, some that have done, you know, their leading research.

Mm-hmm. Kind of at the bleeding edge of what's really working best for family businesses and helping companies move from generation to generation in the most seamless way possible. I mean, I'd find them and bring them back and, and. Start, you know, start there. And I think leading with that, we would end up with really high engagement, really high attendance that would generate growth, which would then generate more [00:33:00] revenue.

You know, ultimately, like when I think about this from a pure business perspective, we care about membership growth and churn rate, right? Mm-hmm. We want new members in the door. We don't want existing members to leave, right? That's it. And that's, that's what the business is. Those are lagging indicators of success.

And so they have nothing to do with what we do on a day-to-day basis. They're the outcomes that. Tell us whether or not we're doing the right things in the first place. Mm-hmm. And so when I think about what creates new members and what, what creates stickiness in the organization, it's giving people a place to network and meet each other, find like-minded people.

Have a resource where they've got a problem, they wanna solve it, they know who they can reach out to people they trust. And confidential confidentiality is key. These are often very sensitive issues. These are families that are well known to the public. They often don't want that dirty laundry aired to the world.

And so it can sometimes be hard to ask for help, but if you have another family business that understands those sensitivities, you know that it's gonna be, you know, highly confidential and, and, um, you'll get good advice. [00:34:00] So trying to, trying to drive that as much as we can, 

Jeff Holden: and I can see we're just the quality of all that improving 

Justin Horner: mm-hmm.

Jeff Holden: To a, to a very, very high level, you know, as opposed to a, a great level mm-hmm. Locally or a, a, a really good level regionally, you take that to, to the next level because the resources are there to do so. Mm-hmm. That just draws a lot more attention. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And engagement from not only the existing membership, but that buzz of what that is.

Creates more interest, creates more membership, and obviously if you continue to do so and you provide what the interest of the group is. You succeed, the churn rate diminishes. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. Yeah. And I think this is the type of organization you can grow regionally and then statewide and then kind of move, move across regions like the, the West coast and mm-hmm.

And moving east in our perspective, I think there's a lot of family business organizations that are out there, all of which are trying to solve the same problems. A lot of that could be streamlined. And I think you still want, you'd want a model where locally they have a lot of autonomy [00:35:00] because you still want your local service providers your best.

Tax professionals, attorneys, bankers, all those people locally serving those communities. You want them involved and you want them to be engaged in what's going on. But, but here's the best programming. Here's speakers that we can bring in and they can do a circuit and we can pay them to do a circuit through these different regions.

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

Justin Horner: You know, members have more of a database to draw on. So they, the problem they may have may not happen in Northern California, but once every a hundred years, but it happens somewhere else in the country and they can draw on that experience from other, other regions. 

Jeff Holden: And you just said something. I think that's really a, a, a great observation.

There's something that may not happen here, may not have happened, but could happen. 

Scott Thomas: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: And it's happened somewhere else. 

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: And that's a value right there. Yeah. To say, Hey, preventative. Steps we can take because we've seen it happen over here. Yeah. Or somebody shared it that we might not have seen if it was just somebody that's locally or regionally oriented.

Mm-hmm. In terms of the conversation. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: So there's a reason for [00:36:00] somebody to give you a blank check and say, let's go. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Right. We 

Maggie Bender: will take it. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. Right. 

Justin Horner: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If they need help with the spelling, lemme know I can, that's right. It out for them. 

Jeff Holden: How about coming back to reality, the greatest need, what is the greatest need of the organization today?

Justin Horner: That's a good question. I mean, I think from my perspective, it's always engagement, right? I want people to be highly engaged, showing up and want to be there and feel like if they're not there, they're missing something. And so I think we have great engagement. I think there can always be more engagement.

I think it's, it's hard to have a membership that's too engaged. And so for me, that's something that. If they're engaged, then everything else is gonna go right. And so on my side, when I'm thinking about it, or when our, our programs, committees are thinking about it, it's how do we drive engagement? How do we measure engagement?

How do we know what to provide next? Because to some degree, we all, we're, we're making decisions in our own spaces. Mm-hmm. And so, unless we have family members telling us what they need. We're just gonna keep providing whatever ideas we come up with. In [00:37:00] my dream perfect world, they're reaching out to us, using us as like a second brain and saying, Hey, I need to know about this.

I don't need to know about it today, but I need to know about it in the next three or four months. Go track down some information, find, find a great speaker, find some resources, and then bring 'em back and let's create a program around it. And then I can provide that to them if they have that question. I know other members have the same question, and I think that to me would drive phenomenal programming, phenomenal engagement, but it's just always hard to get people's feedback.

Everyone's out executing on their own business Sure. And doing all their own things. Sure. And so you're kind of asking 'em to do a little bit of extra homework to think ahead. But my, like I said, my dream is for them to think of us as, uh, as an external brain, they can kind of outsource something too. We can go track down the best information and bring 'em back.

Jeff Holden: I'm glad to hear you say, you know, those are some of the greater needs because so many organizations, as you can imagine, were nonprofit oriented. They come through, their grants have been cut, the funding has changed. The dynamic of fundraising is different today than it was 2, 3, 4, 5 years [00:38:00] ago. 

Sure. 

Jeff Holden: And.

Their struggle is revenue stay afloat. Mm-hmm. You know, we just need money. You're member funded. 

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: You can scale. Yes. You know, you can adjust and, and if, if membership were to shrink a little bit, you make the adjustment. If it grows, it gives you the opportunity. You're not reliant on something that's, you know, distant or government funded or whatever the case may be through foundations.

Grants, which is really a, a good way to go. Yeah. Because it's up to you. Yeah. You know, the success of the business will be up to you because of what you do and how you serve your constituents. Just, just that easy. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. We have much lower volatility than organizations that have to purely go out and fundraise from dollar zero every year and try to exceed that same budget every year.

Starting, you know, fresh again every year. We have a lot of multi-year memberships. We do have natural churn. I mean, there are family businesses that sell. There's, um, family businesses that are struggling and this isn't top priority. You know, there's, they move out of the state. Mm-hmm. There's a lot of reasons that members may leave, [00:39:00] so we're always have, we have to be growth focused or we'll lose members over time.

Jeff Holden: Right. 

Justin Horner: But it's, it's great to not have to think about pure fundraising all the time. 

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

Justin Horner: Because that can, that can dominate an organization's time very quickly. 

Jeff Holden: So Maggie, I'm gonna look at you for this question. 

Justin Horner: Yes. 

Jeff Holden: Because you've got such a breadth of experience with the organization. Are there any family stories like one that you could share, that you could say, yeah, I, I've got a great one that.

Came out of relationship with the Family Business Center. 

Maggie Bender: Absolutely. And I know it very well because it's my story. I love it. I, our family, like I said, was one of the founding families, and so I started with the organization when I was 23 years old, so I'm 20 years older now. 

Scott Thomas: Yes. 

Maggie Bender: And I'd been in business for about a year, and I didn't.

Really see a clear path forward, whether it was in the family business or outside of it. I didn't really know what I was gonna be doing. 'cause I was, I was 23 and what I was [00:40:00] struggling with the most was how isolating it felt being the DOB. My dad always calls himself an SOB, well, you know, son of a boss.

I'm daughter of boss. And so when your child, when you're the child of the CEO, there's different dynamics at work. People treat you differently. They weigh your words differently, and you learn pretty quickly that you can't fully let your guard down with coworkers in the same way. And it made it hard to build genuine relationships and even harder to imagine like long term, what is this gonna look like for me?

So when I started attending Family Business Center meetups, it all changed. I met peers who were in similar situations and others who were further along in their journeys. One conversation that really stands out to me was with Susie Walker, who is, I believe second generation, her family's business. And Larry Walker Engineering, is that right?

Environmental engineering. Mm-hmm. And. She shared that she had chosen not to have children so she [00:41:00] could fully pursue her career, and I had never even considered that as an option. But talking with her helped me think or helped me realize that there wasn't just one right path. And there were many ways to see to build a fulfilling life and still serve the business thoughtfully and selflessly.

Through the center, my family explored succession options, clarified what mattered most to us, and learned from incredibly impressive multi-generational businesses. The biggest impact for me was not the programming experts, which is phenomenal, but it was the peer connections. Two of my absolute best friends I met in the leadership program that we put on 15 years ago.

No one has the same story, but having people who understand the complexity and loneliness of family business leadership really made all the difference. It made me feel. You know, more like I belonged in a community. So ultimately we figured out what our succession plan was because of the family business center.

And like you said, my dad was the first, uh, person to share on our podcast. [00:42:00] And, um, yeah, I'm very, very grateful for everything that I've been able to get from this organization. 

Jeff Holden: That's a great story because you would not have had that relationship and comfort with somebody if they weren't a part of the organization.

You're not gonna talk to somebody on the street or just another business acquaintance that somebody introduced you to. It just wouldn't happen. But that implied trust because you're a part of the organization. There's some psychological safety there to be able to address it. Mm-hmm. I think that's wonderful that, that's a great story.

Maggie Bender: Thank you. 

Jeff Holden: That is a very great story. 

Justin Horner: I'll say something I noticed. So I'm, I'm not coming from a family business, I'm coming from a service provider kind of background. And so we'll go to board meeting. We have a phenomenal board, many of whom are family business members. 

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

Justin Horner: And I forget sometimes when I show up to board meetings that.

They're all friends. They all know each other extremely well. They talk between our meetings, they go to each other's family events. They, you know, it's amazing how close they've become. And so we'll be talking and it's, I [00:43:00] haven't seen these people in a month and they're having a conversation about what they did last weekend, and I think that's so cool that they've got this group of people that are not only.

Somebody they can rely on for business advice, but they're just friends. Yeah. And it's, you know, people with a similar background that, that all can enjoy each other even though they're all different businesses and you know, we're all in the same community. I think family businesses really are root of our community and it's cool to see them all kind of hanging out.

Yeah. Working together. 

Jeff Holden: The thing that amazes me about the organization, having not been aware of it back in the day, but because of the association with the podcast. Is the family businesses that are in Sacramento. How many businesses you may not know are family businesses? 

Justin Horner: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: Until they come through.

And there's the obvious ones, because the name is on the the door. Yeah. But so many others that it isn't. 

Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: And when you realize, oh my gosh, you know, this is the second, A third in some cases, fourth generation business. Who knew? Mm-hmm. And you, you talk to people [00:44:00] in the community, they don't know. Right.

I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've had a conversation with somebody in the outside say, man, we just had a great episode with blah, blah blah in, in the studio. And they're like, what's that got to do with the family business? It's a family business. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: But you just don't know it. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: And that's the, I think the surprise for a lot of people when they do hear it, but what a benefit.

Because on the surface you wouldn't know it is, but they still have all the same issues that family businesses have. 

Justin Horner: Sure. 

Jeff Holden: And to the, the general population, no big deal to the business community. Maybe even not a big deal until they engage. Mm-hmm. And realize there's something there. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. Yeah. You're absolutely right.

And there's something in the, in the culture of a family business that just, it's different from a pure for-profit organization. I mean, not that family businesses don't want profit, they do, but they, they take a little bit different approach. They've got, there's just enough. Family orientation to how they do things.

The way they treat their employees, the way they attack strategy and growth. [00:45:00] Doesn't mean they don't take risk, but they've got this long-term perspective. And so some of that can be scaled back a little bit because they're not willing to bet the entire success of the organization on one big idea. 

Jeff Holden: Right.

Justin Horner: Which I think provides a lot of economic stability. When you look at the number of employees that are employed by a family business, it's the vast majority of. Of employees in Northern California. I think it's maybe family businesses, government, healthcare, somewhere in, there's like, those are the three that kind of, you know, employ most people.

Jeff Holden: And I've got some, some stats on that. Oh, great. 

Justin Horner: I, I, I wish I, I used to be able to rattle them off. It's been a while. So 

Jeff Holden: in the close, yeah, I did, did a little homework on it myself. 'cause I was really curious. Mm-hmm. Because we hear it sometimes it seems that family businesses are taken for granted mm-hmm.

And or small businesses mm-hmm. Are taken for granted. That is the backbone of the country. 

Maggie Bender: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: In so many ways. Before I get there, what's the best way to learn more about the organization? 

Justin Horner: Yeah, probably the website. I would say it's you just go, you know, go to your favorite search engine type in capital region, family [00:46:00] Business Center.

Yeah, that's the best way to find us. Our URL may be changing this year, so that's something that's kind of out on the strategic plan right now. It's cap family biz bs, 

Jeff Holden: bs.org. And I'll put it, I'll put that in the show notes too. So anybody that's listening, you don't have to worry about memorizing. It's just you kind of have an idea what it is.

It'll be in the show notes. You can click and it'll link your light straight through. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. One of the things that came out of our strategic planning this year as a board was we need to clean that up and make it easy to find. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

Justin Horner: So, 

Jeff Holden: well, I, I applaud you for the way that you treat. The podcast as well.

And, and this is just a, a little bit self-serving because a lot of times an organization has a podcast. You don't know it exists. It's maybe buried in a header somewhere on your homepage. 

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: It's front and center. 

Maggie Bender: Oh. We're very proud of 

Jeff Holden: it. And as you should be because it's extremely well done. Your host is a family business.

Non participant who chose to leave the family business. And that's Natalie Cling from Mariani Packing. Mm-hmm. 

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: Does a wonderful job. She just does a, a, a fabulous [00:47:00] job with the guests. But that's unique. I mean, it, it's, it's very unique that you find somebody in the organization who has the capability to be the host and then do a wonderful job of it.

You exercise that program extremely well and you get far more play with it than you have membership, which means it's going beyond just the membership on every single episode. You know, some episodes are, are over a thousand downloads. Mm-hmm. Which means that's a thousand individuals have chosen to listen to something that came out of that program and, and you should be proud of it because it's a really, really good program.

Justin Horner: And I mean, Natalie's, if you, if I didn't know that she wasn't a professional podcast producer, 

Jeff Holden: you wouldn't know 

Justin Horner: or host. I would. I would think that she was 

Jeff Holden: right. 

Justin Horner: And I think it's a unique skillset to be able to draw those stories outta families and get to the root of some of that emotion that's in there and get people to open up and talk about some of the challenges that they've had.

'cause that's where the meaningful connection is. That's where what. We [00:48:00] want other family businesses to take away. It's all rooted in that, like what is it like to be that person? And that's, it's all rooted somewhere in the emotion of it. And that's sometimes easy to mask with business. 

Jeff Holden: And you said two wonderful things that are just meaningful way and emotion.

Mm-hmm. And that is so much about family business, that is what family businesses are. And, and it's why you exist. 

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: So 

Maggie Bender: well 

Jeff Holden: said con, congratulations on, on what you do with that. Nearly 50% of the country is made up of small business. And the best sources we could find through, through the research were about a, you know, a quarter, 27% of those are family businesses.

That's a huge number. In Sacramento, the numbers estimated to be closer to 50% of the workforce is employed by family business, which is a lot of the employee database in Sacramento. 

Justin Horner: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: And you're servicing that through the organization. The family businesses that participate. 

Justin Horner: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: So there's a real good mem reason to be a member of the [00:49:00] organization right there.

Mm-hmm. Just to, to associate and participate with the same people who are experience all the same things that we just spoke about. So for both of you, for what you do with the Family Business Center, Maggie. Thank you for your last four years of services as leadership. Justin, welcome. Thank you to the presidency.

I look forward to your tenure and, and what we do and how things grow in the course of the next couple of years. 

Justin Horner: Yeah, thank you. I'm excited about it. 

Jeff Holden: Thank you both. 

Justin Horner: Thanks, Jeff. Thanks for having us. Thank 

Scott Thomas: you for listening to the Nonprofit 

Jeff Holden: Podcast Network. We hope today's episode inspired you and gave you a deeper look into the work of our local nonprofits if you believe in our mission to amplify their voices.

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