Not Just Whipped Cream: Nitrous Oxide Abuse Kills

Michelle Bushnell: [00:00:00] If there is no pathway to enforcement, if there is nothing but a slap on the hand, it will not work. It'll be another piece of paper that does not work and does not create those boundaries that need to be there. One thing is it has to be recognized as a drug. It has to be recognized as something that is deadly to people because it is.

This is not different than heroin or speed or whatever kind of recreational drug out there. It's just easier to get. It's not illegal and there's no age limit on it.

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[00:02:00] In this episode, I'm stepping into a conversation that is as urgent as it is unsettling what might sound like a harmless, even legal product. Nitrous oxide is revealing itself to be something far more dangerous, far more pervasive, and far more misunderstood. I'm joined by leaders on the front lines of this most unusual situation.

County Supervisor Michelle Bushnell from Humboldt County and Heidi Sandborn, CEO, and Executive Director of the National Stewardship Action Council. They're both seeing the real impact of this issue every single day, and what they share isn't theoretical. It's not abstract. These are stories of addiction, of environmental damage, of family shattered and of lives lost.

Often in ways that are difficult to track, regulate, or even fully understand. What struck me most in this conversation is the gap between what this product is labeled as and how it's actually being used [00:03:00] between legislation and enforcement, between accessibility and accountability. We talk about how something marketed for whipped cream has become an inexpensive, highly addictive substance with devastating consequences, and the discovery comes as a result of what started as an environmental issue.

This conversation has far reaching consequences that are nationwide, and they're originated from an organization right here in our backyard. This isn't just about awareness. It's about confronting a growing public health crisis that's hiding in plain sight. And as you listen, you'll hear a clear call for stronger legislation, real enforcement, and a deeper recognition of what's truly at stake saving lives.

Because this isn't just happening somewhere else. It's happening now. It's closer than we think it we must take action. 

Scott Thomas: Heidi Sandborn, supervisor Bushnell, [00:04:00] 

Jeff Holden: welcome to the Nonprofit Podcast Network. 

Heidi Sanborn: Thank you for having us. Thank you for having me. 

Jeff Holden: Boy, have we got a story to share today? Heidi, for those who may not be familiar, would you tell us about the organization and the mission that drives your work?

The National Stewardship Action Council? 

Heidi Sanborn: Yes, thank you, Jeff. I've been in this waste management business now for 35 years in California. I've been a regulator consultant, and I saw that there was a real need for a different kind of advocate. So I jumped out. I started the California Product Stewardship Council and we advocate for basically driving a circular economy.

And that was so successful that I was getting asked to speak all over the country. So I started the National Stewardship Action Council and I, which is a 5 0 1 CC four. So I advocate and lobby in California and beyond. But also I have a C3 called the Stewardship Action Foundation. And our goal is that the US achieve a circular economy.

In my lifetime, 

Jeff Holden: [00:05:00] and for those who aren't familiar, what is a circular economy? 

Heidi Sanborn: A responsible circular economy is where everything that is sold has an end of life plan, and that there is a market, there is a way to keep it in the circle of life. So it's either organic, stay in the organic system, the industrial materials, stay in the industrial system, and become the next feedstock for the next product.

The two shall not cross because that's pollution and we have done a whole, and then you have to go back and repair nature that you've damaged and we've done a lot of damage. 

Darrell Teat: Mm-hmm. 

Heidi Sanborn: So I've literally passed the only circular economy bill in the world on packaging here in California s SP 54. I helped negotiate that bill where we did reduce waste first source reduction.

Then you keep materials in motion, which is recycling, and then. You go and clean up the mess and we have a $5 billion amount of money coming from the packaging industry to clean up California, 500 million a year for 10 years. [00:06:00] So we're real leaders in this space. I get asked to speak all over the world. A lot of people locally know me less than the people around the world know me in my industry.

But we're really excited today to talk about a bill that we're working on that is really crossing not just the waste issue. This, that's how we found out about it. But when I heard the public health and impacts and the public safety impacts, I knew we had to do something about it. And that's the angle we're framed that we're gonna talk about mostly today.

Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: And what the purpose of that is. Typically, we would dive deeper into the organization itself, but today, because of the significance of what it is you're doing, let's simplify it too. Making sure that recyclables are being recycled properly and we're not harming the environment as a result, and, or the people that are responsible for the recycling.

So we're all familiar with aluminum cans. You, you pay a recycling fee, it goes to, you know, the, the consumer and then the consumer typically will bring it back and recycle it, or they'll dispose of it and it gets recycled. But what we're talking [00:07:00] about today is something that was discovered that's a little bit unique.

And we're going to address that from a couple of different perspectives, and that is nitrous oxide canisters. And for lack of clarity, for many of us, it's like, well, what the heck is that? Nitrous oxide? We might know it as as laughing gas, but it's the same gas that's in whipped cream cans, and the population at large has discovered that you can inhale this.

WHI cream can gas, and many of us may have done it when we were kids and it, you know, deepens your voice and ha ha ha. It's pretty funny. It makes you laugh, but it's gotten to the extreme now to where it's being used as a huffing device for substance and 

Heidi Sanborn: serial abuse of laughing gas 

Jeff Holden: abuse. Right. And that gas comes in these canisters, which is how it originated in your space 

Heidi Sanborn: Exactly.

Jeff Holden: To say these canisters, well the majority of them are aluminum. Tell us about the recycling capability [00:08:00] and what's happening. 'cause that's how this started. 

Heidi Sanborn: I literally was taking legislators to the Oak Grove Hazardous Waste facility, and when we were there, they were showing me this new problem that they had.

And all these very large canisters, they're about a foot and a half tall. They even have a handle on them. And they said, and one said Miami Vice and the other one said, baking bad. And they said these were costing them about $120 a piece to manage. They have, they're compressed gas, so they have to be punctured, evacuated, evacuated, then crushed and shipped, and it's very expensive.

And if they are compacted, they can explode. So this is, our industry is now the fifth most deadly in the nation. And a lot of it's due to the improper disposal of products that are hazardous like this. I said, I've never seen these before. Where are they coming from? And they said, well, people are coming in literally with them by the case and households.

And we've also had hotels drop them [00:09:00] off literally in the entire back of a pickup truck full of them from partiers at the hotel. So I said, something is really wrong here, and we had literally one recycler in the entire state. So if you can buy them for 70 or $80, it costs us like 120 to manage. That's not sustainable.

We cannot externalize that kind of cost. Onto the rate payer, and this is another thing, making life unaffordable in California, not to mention the litter problem or putting them in a recycling bin or hiding them in the trash where they can explode and hurt our workers. So we said we have to do something.

Jeff Holden: And there are some videos online that you can see where a trash compact or a garbage truck is coming through and the crew is back there and these things are being compressed. And they're exploding. 

Heidi Sanborn: Yep. 

Jeff Holden: And they are injuring the people, the very people that are trying to clean the mess up. And I, I have a question.

If I bring one of those canisters to a recycling place. Am I getting paid for the aluminum value of it? 

Heidi Sanborn: No. We have to spend a lot more than it's worth. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. 

Heidi Sanborn: [00:10:00] A lot more. 

Jeff Holden: So that's why they're being disposed of anywhere. 

Heidi Sanborn: That's right. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. And Supervisor Bush. Now you have been seeing this problem now for years up in Humboldt County, and I think we were talking a little bit earlier.

You're seeing these things disposed in in waterways on the streets, just anywhere. 

Michelle Bushnell: Yeah, so there's two different types, canisters. There's the ones that Heidi's talking about that are the foot and a half. They come in flavored. They're mostly sold in tobacco shops. They're clearly not being produced for, to make whipped creams.

They're clearly being produced to for as an inhalant. And then there are the little tiny, they look like CO2 cartridges, whippet, what they call whippets. Those are a food grade nitrous oxide that is. Intended to go into a whipped cream canister to make whipped cream. And what folks have done is they buy those [00:11:00] little whippet cartridges, they buy canister, they are commonly referred to as a cracker, and they put those little cartridges in there that cracks the nitrous, it fills that little container full of nitrous, and then they huff it out of the end.

That cracker, as they call it, it's a one time. Huff, I think is what they're saying. They dispose of them, get another one, do the same thing, repeat. And so we're seeing them have been for around 10 years in Humboldt County on road sites, dumped hundreds of them dumped just back alleys, rural areas in waterways in the bay, in Eureka area around Humboldt Bay.

And they, they get a, you know, first of all, they're, they're just really, they never go anywhere. They don't, you know, they don't dispose of themselves. They get in people's tires, they get in the waterways. And then recently working with Recology, talking with Recology, they've come into our, you know, disposal [00:12:00] sites and they don't know what to do with them either for the reasons that Heidi said.

Jeff Holden: So what starts out as just a pollution situation where we think what is going on with this turns out to really become. What we're starting to realize now is a health crisis, and you actually have experienced some of this in Humboldt County. We're seeing it across the state. Can you share with us some of the things that you've seen from a standpoint of the, the health concern of it?

What's happening? It's not the canister itself, it's what's happening to the, our kids and the people who are, are huffing this, this gas. 

Michelle Bushnell: Sure. 

Jeff Holden: Two points of passing out and you've seen accidents, share with us what's happening that you've seen. 

Michelle Bushnell: Sure. So, and one thing is that there, this isn't a drug, it's a food grade product.

And so there is no age that says you can't be 10 years old and buy this product. And so that right there is, is a problem. Secondly, this [00:13:00] product is very addictive. It increases endorphins in your brain and it's a, it's a very addictive product that you a very quick high and they, what it does, what I'm understanding that it does from our health department is it cuts the oxygen off to your brain and you do what they call a fish maneuver where you pass out, fall down, get back up pretty quickly, repeat.

Also it, it robs your body of vitamin K, which can paralyze you. And I've seen many folks paralyzed from this excessive use product. And I also, we lost one kid up here that was 18 years old, froze his lungs from excessive use. I had an employee that died with a cracker in his hand. It also is very hard to test for it.

So you don't know if that's what killed them or, or a combination. So there's that issue. We just had an accident four months ago. A young lady was ri driving in a [00:14:00] car with a gentleman that was huffing on these nitrous oxide things and passed out, crossed over the yellow medium into the path of a pg e truck.

They had a bigger canisters in the backseat. When the vehicle was hit, it exploded. She was killed instantly and she was 18 years old. A local school girl. We, we had here in this small rural county, but this is, this is numerous times. We had an accident about seven years ago. A woman with two passengers were huffing.

Nitrous. She passed out. Crossed onto to the fog line, hit a pedestrian and killed him. It's a huge problem in Humboldt County and across the state of California, probably beyond, but it's an epidemic for sure. It's also very hard to attest for this gas in your system. It's also a food grade item, so it's very hard to regulate and it is also very hard to, once you regulate it, how do you enforce it?

So enforcement has, [00:15:00] has become a problem about two and a half years ago. I, I'm a county board of supervisors in Humboldt County, and I started investigation through public health and with our senator. Saying, how can we outlaw these things? I want, I want an ordinance in Humboldt County that says we cannot sell these things in our tobacco stores or grocery stores.

And that you have to have a retail license, like a coffee shop or, or a restaurant, because that's what they're intended for. Right. And so it's, it is, we do have that ordinance now and all incorporated cities in my county have also signed on with that ordinance. But it's not the answer to the problem.

Bigger legislation is the answer to this problem. How their sold retail retaily is really the, the answer and there's, it's twofold. The health concerns, the dangerous of it when you're doing it during a vehicle and you're killing people. And also the addictive portion of it. And then the waste and the [00:16:00] environmental damage that it's doing to our, to our state.

Jeff Holden: Not to mention this is available on Amazon, 

Michelle Bushnell: correct? Yep. Correct. And you know, it's interesting that when you go into a store, they're flavored and they're, they've got cartoon characters on them and they're very colorful cartridges to attract people. You know, it's, it's a huge epidemic. Like these things are being produced to sell as an inhalant.

And as a drug and that there is a government code that says if you purchase or sell this item as an inhale, that makes illegal. So what? Who checks that? That is legislation from years and years ago. That is not effective. 

Jeff Holden: And it's basically unenforceable. 

Michelle Bushnell: Unenforceable. There is no, yeah, under that 

Jeff Holden: circumstance, 

Michelle Bushnell: yeah.

There's no enforceable mechanism. It's a misdemeanor. It doesn't take away someone's retail license. It doesn't. You get a slap on the hand [00:17:00] and say, don't do it anymore. 

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. Heidi, you've done a lot of work on this too, and what you're starting to realize now across not only the state but the country, not only are counties starting to say this is not acceptable, but there are other states who have outlawed these canisters.

Share with us what that's about and what you've seen. 

Heidi Sanborn: I was shocked because normally in the waste management world, California's first we're following Nebraska, Louisiana, and Texas. They've already banned the sale of these things. In fact, in Nebraska, I'm working with a legislator who immediately put in a bill after they found one of her constituents dead in bed.

A 22-year-old young man who. Was doing the nitrous canister and had OD'ed basically passed out and, and died and she didn't even know this had been happening. And then she looked into it and found that they were flavors like Candy Crush. Well, no Chef is using Candy Crush and just because it says on it do not [00:18:00] inhale does not mean it's not intended to be sold for inhaling.

So they quickly in a uni, they're the only unicameral governmental body in this country and they very quickly banned it. From sale. So when I learned that, I said, we have to bring this up in California. It's, that's, and then the more I dug into it, and now we've got San Francisco's looking at introducing an ordinance.

They just went public Alameda's looking at it, the best thing is to get a state bill across because we have jurisdictional boundaries and we also have to work with our tribal community. They have a lot of vape shops and other things. So I've been talking. With the tribes too, to help get their help in this.

Because even though we think of this as a, something that would be used by a chef, it's being sold in vape shops. That tells you a whole lot right there. So that's why one of the bills, there's actually other bills in the legislature. One would ban the sale via Amazon. The other one would ban the sale in tobacco shops and limit where tobacco shops cannot be near a school [00:19:00] within a certain distance.

So, and 'cause vapes are another problem in schools and with kids. 

Jeff Holden: But even worse here, vapes have an age limit to be sold, supposed to. Whereas this has no age limit. This is, anybody can purchase this at any age. And when you mentioned colorful and comic cartoonish, that's 

Heidi Sanborn: just like vapes. 

Jeff Holden: It's appealing to children, no doubt about it.

Candy Crush and, and names on there, 

Heidi Sanborn: watermelon, 

Jeff Holden: right? 

Heidi Sanborn: So as we have on our fact sheet. Drug users in recovery are actually telling us that this is as addictive as crack cocaine, 

Jeff Holden: which is amazing to think we've only just started to hear about this. Uh, but I think we have hit that tipping point to where there's so much of, it's become so prevalent, so many accidents are being caused.

And we have a, an example too, of a relatively local accident here where we're in Sacramento County. 

Heidi Sanborn: It was Yolo County. Yeah. There was [00:20:00] a young lady who had. Had a child. I think the child was two or three years old. It was in the San Francisco Chronicle. They just did an update on that article. She was on the front page and pictured and paralyzed because she was in a car with her boyfriend and they were inhaling.

He passed out. Similar to the story supervisor Bushnell said they crossed the double yellow, hit a truck head on. Two innocent men going to work, both fathers dead. The driver died and she is paralyzed for life. So this is a huge public safety issue, which is why we have as co-sponsors on this bill, not just my organization, the National Steward Action Council, but we have the District attorney of San Diego, orange County Supervisors.

They also banned the sale. I think they might have been first, I don't know it was Humboldt or Orange, and then San Mateo County did it as well. But their [00:21:00] co-sponsors, orange County's co-sponsor of the bill, as well as the Regional Council of Rural Counties, which represent Humboldt and others. So we've also heard from France, 

Jeff Holden: I was just say, this is is beyond the United States.

That's right. This is an epidemic taking place across the world. 

Heidi Sanborn: So I was doing some Google searches for research on the bill and found that there was a press story. That three young teenagers were inhaling in a car passed out, the driver passed out, they broke through a fence, went into a pool, and all three drowned.

And the parents are suing the companies. So I think class action lawsuits may in order here because I just, if I were a parent that had that sort of tragedy, there's no way, 

Jeff Holden: especially since the capability and access to these canisters. Is any age. 

Heidi Sanborn: Yeah. And they're online and of course they click the button that says they're 21 or what have you.

But [00:22:00] like she, you know, the supervisor said, candy Crush baking bad. This is not being sold for whipped cream and it's obviously trying to get around the law and we've got to plug these holes quickly. In fact, I would love for this to be an emergency bill that we're working on because I feel it's that.

Serious. We're all in danger as long as these things are out there and we're driving and people are passing out behind the wheel of a 2000 pound piece of flying metal. 

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

Heidi Sanborn: It's very, very dangerous. I also have a letter here that was sent January 28th to Senator 2026, 

Jeff Holden: January 28th. 

Heidi Sanborn: 2026. Mm-hmm. And it's a gentleman from N Pomo and he wrote a full page on this, but basically what he said is his 3-year-old grandson.

Nearly lost his life and is now confined to a wheelchair in Bakersfield in a nursing home. He may never walk again, all because of nitrous oxide poisoning. And he goes through the whole [00:23:00] story, but the bottom line is it is tragic, and he's got two kids that he can't raise now. This stuff is so much more addictive than people knew.

Um. His dad says he was a good Catholic boy who loves sports and now he's basically never gonna have the life he could have had. And he said, laughing gas is no laughing matter. We need to pass legislation to ban the sale of this drug. So the story coming in are quite compelling and we really hope we can get this done this year.

Jeff Holden: We'll be back with more on this most interesting discussion about nitrous oxide and its effects on our communities right after we hear from those supporting this valuable conversation. 

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Jeff Holden: And I think what's going to happen is as people become more aware of. What the consequence of this drug is, they're gonna realize, oh my gosh, that's my son, my daughter, my nephew, my niece, what you're seeing up in Humboldt County for the last 10 years, supervisor Bushnell the significance of abuse of this supposedly safe gas that we thought was relatively benign in misuse.

It's anything but. So [00:28:00] you, Heidi, supervisor Bushnell, have taken some action. What are you doing and what needs to happen at this point to move this forward? 

Heidi Sanborn: I mean, the supervisor was leading the charge in Humboldt County to ban the sale in her county, and they're supporting this legislation that I have co-sponsored Senator Catherine Blake Spear from Escondido.

She is. The lead author and we've just had a co-author, Senator Berg join her and we have co-authors. Now. It's becoming a big, everybody wants to jump on in support of this, thankfully. But this bill would ban the sale of these canisters in California and it would ban them from selling anything with these flavors because there's nobody that's legitimately using them for cooking.

And in your dentist office with these flavors that's intended to hook kids. So. We're very proud of getting this introduced. We're proud of how many people are signed on already [00:29:00] in support. We've got, you know, the county of Humbold, of course, and a lot of the rural counties. We've got the League of California cities, waste companies like Recology and Republic Services.

The urban counties of California, Western Placer Waste Authority because they're Murph, they're picking a bunch of 'em out, and again, they're dangerous to our workers. So we've got this bill that we need to get done this year. We're in the second year of a two year session. We just introduced it, which means it has to go through quickly.

The Senate is it, that's where it was introduced, and then get it to the house on the other side and get it through there and to the governor by September. So. What we're doing now is getting support. Support letters are due actually this Tuesday for the first hearing, which will be in the Public Safety Committee of the Senate, at least for those letters to get in the analysis for the committee.

But as soon as you get, if you wanna support this effort, you can do it by just submitting a letter to the committee on a portal that they have on the website. Or just email me or my organization and let us know. [00:30:00] We'll teach you how to do it. They need to hear from every single district in this state. We need this to not be a question.

This has to get done this year 

Jeff Holden: and by hear from consumers, residents making noise. 

Heidi Sanborn: Yes. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. And do you wanna give us that email and we'll put it in the show notes as well? 

Heidi Sanborn: Absolutely. heidi@nsaction.us. And I would say that there's nothing more compelling to a legislator than a personal story. Letters like.

Tom Knight sent in from Omo about his 3-year-old son with the details. That's what compels legislators to say, this is a real thing. These are real people with, with tragic stories, and we need to stop this. But if we just put in a bunch of, you know, letters that all look the same and then we're making the same arguments, that's not as compelling.

These are very compelling. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. We want the letters from the real people in the community who have experienced. Tragedy, trauma, and in some cases, sadly, [00:31:00] death. 

Heidi Sanborn: And if you wanna save time and you're not a letter writer, you can go on on a social media page and tell a little story or say, I'm sorry, sorry, you know, my, my child died.

I had this experience. And tag that legislator, who represents you or two, said it, and the assembly. Mm-hmm. Because then they'll all see it and it starts getting legs. It's what I call those ripple effects that go out into the world. But we have to speak up about this. It's like when you and I first talked, Jeff, you hadn't heard of this other people and, and that we know hadn't heard of this, and yet the more I I learn about it, I think this has been going on for years.

Why haven't we done more to protect kids and ourselves 

Jeff Holden: and Supervisor Bush? No. Yes. 

Michelle Bushnell: Thank you. If I could just chime in. Beyond, beyond children, this is wrecking adult lives as well and adult families and the, the addiction, it's very addictive. I, I had a woman around 36 years old that came and [00:32:00] testified during our nitrous ordinance that we were bringing forward.

She had been in rehab three times for nitrous oxide addiction and she said it's the hardest. She smoked cigarettes. She had all done drugs in the past, you know, recreational drugs and was able to beat those and was not able to beat nitrous oxide addiction. And she is now two years clean and does very amounts of.

You know, talks and talks with people and works with her. Na, she goes to NA for this still and feels like right now she's beating this and she is conquering it. But that drive for it is still there. And so, you know, not only children but adults and you know, parents that are neglecting their children. And then also those children seeing their parents do it.

So it, it's a epidemic, as you've said, and. [00:33:00] You know the proposed SB 9 36, which is Blake Blake Spear and Berg's bill. While it's good and great, and I'm sure that it'll have some revisions, enforcement is key. If there is no pathway to enforcement, if there is nothing but a slap on the hand, it will not work.

It'll be another piece of paper that does not work and does not create those boundaries that need to be there. One thing is it has to be recognized as a drug. It has to be recognized as something that is deadly to people because it is, this is not different than heroin or speed or whatever kind of recreational drug out there.

It's just easier to get, it's not illegal and there's no age limit on it. And I had heard Heidi say. On Amazon, you know, you click the 21, well, you don't have to click the 21 to get this because there is no age limit on it. And, and, and it's a food grade. It also brings up, uh, you know, the bigger canisters that [00:34:00] people are bringing in black market.

We've seen those. In fact, the car accident that killed the 18-year-old girl a couple months ago had a large. Medical grade canister in the back seat. And that's what, that's what exploded. And so it's a compressed gas. And like Heidi says, with the disposal of 'em, you see them blowing up in the garbage trucks.

Well, if you're hauling 'em around in your car, you're gonna, your car's gonna blow up, which we've seen two times in Humboldt County and resulted in deaths. So this legislation that we're bringing forward and ev. Everybody has a story, so it's really important. But please also note that part of that legislation has to be enforcement, and there has to be monies that come for that enforcement through public health and, and to, to recognize that it's a public health e epidemic.

Jeff Holden: The comments you just made there, supervisor Bush, know that it, it struck me as, [00:35:00] I think one of the reasons that this isn't recognized. As prevalently as it is, is because it's perceived as legal. And if it's illegal, all of a sudden everybody gets, pays attention to it. It must be something we have to, to work with.

But because it's perceived benign, it's, it's, it's legal. You can buy it and the restaurants are using it. Oh, well, it's okay. And until we make noise, and I think once the awareness of this bill and the recognition of these canisters being used for. Substance abuse, it's gonna change the game. I think people are gonna come outta the woodwork going, oh my gosh, yes, yes, yes.

I've been screaming this. Nobody's been listening to me. 

Michelle Bushnell: Yes, 

Heidi Sanborn: I agree. Yes. I mean, that's why I'm so excited about this bill, because it's a messaging. Tool to people about, A lot of people don't even know what they're looking at when they find a canister on the side of the road that obviously somebody left there 'cause they don't wanna have it in their [00:36:00] car or be caught with it.

Um, I'm educating schools, high schools. I'm working with them on vapes, but we're now educating them also on these because they don't, they also don't know the symptoms of abuse, of laughing gas. So, for example, and I know. The supervisor knows more about this than I do, but a lot of tingling in your extremities because you're literally choking off oxygen and, and so they might be starting to have numbness and things.

Some of this doesn't repair, by the way. This can be very permanent damage to people. 

Michelle Bushnell: So repeat with repeated use and long use. You know, I, I know folks currently that take a vitamin K injection every single day, and they still are huffing on a canister, and so that vitamin K injection is allowing them to walk, but also they're there.

The young woman, the 36-year-old woman that came to testify at our board of supervisors, you also get very [00:37:00] aggressive. You have withdrawals, you know, similar to like methamphetamines. It creates a lot of weird behaviors because you're depriving your oxygen, your brain of oxygen. Your brain is dying when you do this.

And so I think there's 12 or 14 of those little tiny bullet things that come in a case. They buy cases. So I had a young gentleman that worked for me, and I told you this earlier, that died with a cracker in his hand. He was 22 years old. He lived in an apartment that I owned, and after he had passed away, I went to clean out his apartment, five 30 gallon trash cans of those little canisters that I found in his apartment.

I wasn't aware that he was doing nitrous obviously. But I did notice a change in his personality at work. He was a young boy that I took in at a younger age because his parents had died away. His dad had [00:38:00] died from an overdose of fentanyl, imagine. And so I noticed this, this personality change with him and his hygiene declined his, you know, good fun nature and really caring side of him.

Diminished. He was very snippety and I asked him about it, you know, I said, well, Nicholas, what's going on with you? You know, and so there, there is. Because it's a drug, really, it is being used as a drug, as an illegal substance. There are a lot of things that are happening health wise that we don't know.

Also, you can, nitrous is not easily something that can be tested for. So if someone wrecks and they get in a wreck and they kill someone. It's not like, oh, let's take you and get a blood test and we'll know that you used nitrous and that was the cause of this accident that may have killed a whole family.

It's a blood gas test and it dissipates out of your system very quickly, [00:39:00] and so there's no way to know unless you find the canisters in the car, but then it's subject, right? Do we know that they were inhaling that and that's what caused this? So there are people dying as we've heard testimony. There are car crashes that are happening.

As we've heard testimony. There's no one to hold accountable without legislation that has an enforcement piece. And I heard Heidi say earlier, you know, if I'm a parent. Of a child that dies or I'm a family member and my my family member is killed by someone that is inhaling nitrous. You want to hold that person accountable.

You don't want that to happen to someone else. You don't want someone to have to go through losing their loved one early in life, unnecessarily in a car accident or inhaling nitrous. Uh, currently, and even with this legislation, which I'm very supportive of. I'm hoping to get some amendments to it though that the enforcement part of it can be very robust 

Heidi Sanborn: and I can say having run [00:40:00] legislation for many years.

I totally agree. We want the strongest enforcement possible. I can also tell you that our budget, the state budget is very, very tight and we Bills go to dies appropriations if the. If the amount of the bill is estimated to be higher than usually $50,000 to the state agencies in a tight budget year, often they're not let out of the committee.

You won't even get out. It just dies and it never even gets a hearing. So the, we have to struggle and constantly balance what can we do? What's the strongest bill we can get passed and signed a, a dead bill doesn't solve anything either. 

Jeff Holden: In every situation here, what we really need is we need the constituents in those particular districts to make sure, right, that they're voicing their concerns.

And I really sincerely believe that once some of this messaging gets out and people start becoming aware of what it is, we're going to hear so many stories that we didn't realize existed [00:41:00] because it's perceived as safe. 

Heidi Sanborn: You know what I might do? This is making me think that maybe we should put on our website an ability for people to submit their stories because I think, as I said, the most compelling thing we can give legislators is real stories from real people in their district.

Jeff Holden: I would agree. 

Michelle Bushnell: Yes. And I wanna back that up by saying in counties, and there's 58 of them in the state of California. And there are five supervisors in each county that really could dive down into what's going on in their counties. And so there is a way to do that through board of Supervisors. And also, I agree with Heidi that any legislation right now that outlaws this is, is something we need.

And if it dies in appropriations because it's gonna take too money, too much money to have a robust enforcement. Then that is something that counties can do as well. They can tack that onto their tobacco retail license. They can make it more robust in their county through their sheriff and counties have.

Incorporated unincorporated [00:42:00] responsibilities. And when we brought this bill forward before we brought this bill forward, I met with all of the incorporated heads and said, this is what we're doing and we want you to follow suit. Where we have had a little bit of, you know, not pushback, but we've had to make sure to include its tribes, as Heidi said earlier, because tribes are not monitored the same way and they have oftentimes many smoke shops on their tribe.

Lands or you know, in casinos, in the tribes, in my county, in Humboldt, we've talked to them. They're very supportive. They wanna get behind this. They do not want to be selling this product to anyone. And so they're, you know, it's just to make sure that you close that circle. And if you can't do it through legislation all at once, then you can interact with your counties and you can have your counties help close that circle with their own ordinances and jurisdictions with their ordinances.

Jeff Holden: Heidi, what's the website for the benefit of those [00:43:00] who don't know? And we will post that in the show notes as well, because I suspect this is gonna get done fairly quickly. 

Heidi Sanborn: Yeah, 

Jeff Holden: and it will be up on your website. 

Heidi Sanborn: Yep. It's www.ms action us. And then I'm gonna put a big. On the homepage all about this bill.

We're gonna have a press conference probably down in the Orange County, San Diego area next month that's getting scheduled. I wanted to press that 

Jeff Holden: would be April of 2026. 

Heidi Sanborn: Yes, 

Jeff Holden: yes 

Heidi Sanborn: or yes, and. We're really looking to do things like this, the podcast, get the word out, do clips, because people have to know about this if they're gonna weigh in in time with their legislators before they vote.

So as I said, the first committee hearings on the 17th, and that's public safety, Senate Public Safety. When it gets out of there, it goes to, I think, business committee, business and professions, and then it goes onto a probes and then up through and onto the other side. So we need all the support we can get.

And we need people to tell [00:44:00] their story and speak out loud and proud because this is a crime really against everybody in a community. Nobody's is free from danger until these things are not sold anymore. 

Michelle Bushnell: And we also need to lobby with the retail, where they're being, how they're being made and sold because we got pushback from the wholesaler saying, well, you know, they, they are for restaurant use, they are for coffee shop use.

You know, we had some folks come in. That own coffee shops. And how am I gonna make my whipped cream? Well, I'm sorry, my grandma made it in a mason jar. Shake it up, put it in a pipe bag. Do your thing. This is not something we're gonna say. We're gonna choose whipped cream over human life. That is absurd. And.

There is a place for these things if they're, if they're monitored correctly, which they're not being. And that's part of what happens with the legislation and ordinance. But honestly, the enforcement part of it with our, with my sheriff, [00:45:00] he said, unless we have a zero tolerance in our county, this is gonna be very hard to enforce.

And that is a true statement of every county right now. And we have machines now that can make, that can whip heavy whipped cream, in instance. And it's not nitrous. It's a, it's a whipper, you know, that we've used for hundreds of years. And, and so this is not a, we're gonna allow this, but, you know, I can't get whipped cream for my coffee.

That is a very selfish and stingy statement to make. 

Jeff Holden: Heidi, you want to also address just for the awareness of everybody. The organization. Yeah. Just a little shout out for the organization, what you're doing. 

Heidi Sanborn: Yeah, thank you. So, I mean, running a nonprofit, especially nowadays is very hard to fund. We're a very niche organization.

We focus only on waste management issues and trying to advocate for. Achieving a responsible and circular economy, the environment is protected, public health is [00:46:00] protected, and quite frankly, affordability is protected because right now our waste management system is very disjointed. Every city and county's responsible for their own system.

Part of what I've done is work with a lot of stakeholders on packaging, so that ultimately we're now gonna have a harmonized system in California for packaging. So one city to the next. The colors will be the same with the bins, everything will be labeled appropriately. If it says compostable, it actually will be, if it says recyclable, it actually will be.

So the whole system needs to work a lot better, but everything's kind of evolved so that. Nothing is working well. It's like running a relay race, passing a baton to somebody you're not talking to, and that's what's been happening and how the whole system evolved. We gotta fix it. So this is very niche work, but it is my life's work and it's very hard to fund.

We get funding from local governments, we get funding. Very budget strapped. Right now, the public, sometimes philanthropy, we do project work, but if you're interested in what we do, this is just one small example. I've done things like [00:47:00] past producer responsibility legislation for medicines and needles, another giant public safety issue.

In 2012, we started seeing all these people get addicted to Oxycontin. Drugs are hitting the market that were legal. Boy, were they addictive? And when people couldn't get 'em, they turned to street drugs. And then we started seeing needles everywhere. So I passed a bill that literally got challenged all the way to these US Supreme Court in Alameda.

We won. And Alameda ordinance is what started it, but it was protecting public health and safety first. But it was also our workers because needles are ending up in the sort line and sticking our workers. So, and the drugs are ending up in sort lines and the dust is they breathe it. If they were being flushed and nuts in our water, we can't get them all out.

So we work on things that a lot of people don't really think about, but we're trying to make everybody's life better. So if you believe in what we're doing, we'd sure appreciate the support. And there's a donate button on our websites. 

Jeff Holden: Thank you. If there's one thing this conversation [00:48:00] reminds us of, it's that the community impact doesn't always look the way we expect it to.

And sometimes it starts in places. Most of us never think about in waste streams, as you just mentioned, in policy committees and hospital data, but it ends in something deeply human. And that's about protecting the workers, protecting the families, protecting our kids, and. We've learned this isn't the, maybe this isn't the tomorrow.

This is a, now we have to do something about this immediately. Time is of the essence because we are going to continue to lose people both ways from canisters blowing up and people who are abusing the vapors. So I, I wonder to sincerely thank you, Heidi, for bringing it to my attention and thinking we might be able to make a difference.

I do think we can, and Supervisor Bushnell. I sincerely appreciate your time today in sharing what's happening up in Humboldt County because you've got experience that most of us don't. With a 10 year history of recognition of [00:49:00] this, and to the listener, stay informed, act, reach out, go to the website, and we need to elevate the necessary work that is strengthening our communities, and sometimes it's in the most unexpected ways.

Thank you both. I sincerely appreciate your time and let's get this legislation passed. 

Michelle Bushnell: Thank you so much, Jeff. Thank. Thank you so much for having me today. 

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