Why Our Kids Can’t Read: The Childhood Literacy Crisis We Can’t Ignore

April Javist: [00:00:00] You know, reading and not reading is literally attached to every major life outcome. I mean, it starts with high school graduation, but then it's college attainment, then it's career attainment, then it's jail and incarceration, then it's health, then it's mental health. I mean, how do you think a kid who struggles to read feels after 10 years of struggling to read?

How about anxious and depressed? Just as a start. How about a distraction in a classroom?

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What happens when a community realizes that reading isn't just an educational benchmark, but the foundation for opportunity, confidence, participation, and even democracy itself? This episode, I sit down with Sacramento Literacy Foundation Executive [00:02:00] Director April Javist for a passionate and eye-opening conversation about literacy, accountability, and why grade-level reading by third grade may be one of the most important issues facing our society today.

April doesn't just talk about literacy as an academic challenge. She frames it as a life outcome issue that impacts everything from graduation rates and employment to mental health, incarceration, civic engagement, and generational poverty. The conversation explores the startling reality that more children today are not reading at grade level than are, and why that matters in an information-driven world where reading touches every aspect of life.

We also dive into the Sacramento Literacy Foundation's innovative work providing culturally relevant books to children and families, why representation in books matters so deeply for young readers, and how simple access to the right books can create lasting emotional impact and connection. April shares moving stories from the field, discusses the growing movement around the science of reading, and [00:03:00] explains how accountability, early intervention, teacher training, and community involvement can dramatically improve literacy outcomes.

This is more than a conversation about schools. It's a conversation about community responsibility, human potential, and the belief that every child deserves the ability to fully participate in society. And as you'll hear for April, literacy isn't just a mission, it's a revolution. April Javitz Welcome to the Nonprofit Podcast Network.

Thank you. You mentioned that more children struggle with reading than can read proficiently. A- a- and just hearing that is astounding to me. But what's the significance of that in the grand scheme of things? 

April Javist: So I would, I, I would just reframe that a little bit, and I would say more kids cannot read at grade level than can.

Jeff Holden: Thank you. Okay. 

April Javist: Yeah. That's what I would say about it. 

Jeff Holden: And we're gonna touch on that grade level. We are 

April Javist: gonna touch on the grade level 'cause it's [00:04:00] important. So in an a- in an i- information age, people need to be able to read. So if you're not, if you, if you're a struggling reader as a kid, then you're gonna be a struggling reader as a young adult.

If you're a struggling reader as a young adult, you're having a hard time finding a job, you're probably not going into the voting booth, which has a very complex set of language- Mm-hmm ... relative to the ballot, and you're not just e- you're not able to fully participate in society, right? So in an information age, this, this is troubling.

We, back in the day, the good old days where people wanna think that we all learned to read, which we did not, just readers learned to read. One in three brains will read no matter what. But back then, we had jobs for folks who struggled to read in manufacturing base. You could actually build a career and have a struggling reading inside, but still rise up into a managerial position, a union position, or those kind of things, but we don't have that now.

So now you have to be able to read. I don't care what your job is. You have to be able to read. [00:05:00] And if you're not, you're just not participating in what's going on in our country day to day. 

Jeff Holden: And I would imagine you're gonna miss an awful lot, too, no matter how screen set you may be- Mm-hmm ... you still need to read.

Even though you can- Oh, yeah ... find much on a YouTube or an AI product or something like that- 

April Javist: Mm-hmm ... 

Jeff Holden: you're still gonna have to read at some point to understand what it's sharing with you. 

April Javist: You are. You absolutely are. 

Jeff Holden: This tees the organization up, I think, really, really well. Can you give us a little history?

of how Sacramento Literacy Foundation came to be. 

April Javist: Mm-hmm. So in 2020, we became the Sacramento Literacy Foundation- That's a good year, right? ... and we created 

Jeff Holden: three goals. Coming right out of the pandemic. 

April Javist: Yeah, yeah, coming right out of the pandemic. Well, the pandemic showed everybody that kids couldn't read.

It didn't, it didn't make it harder for kids to read, with the exception of absenteeism, but it did show everybody that kids couldn't read. Parents suddenly had to test their kids, and they're like, "What? I thought my kid could read." Mm-hmm. [00:06:00] So a lot of information came out. So the pandemic was a little bit silver lining-ish, 'cause it helped us see, oh, kids can't read, and it put a spotlight on a problem that's been existing for actually a couple decades, just to say.

I see- And even for 

Jeff Holden: those parents, the parents are now seeing their children at home, realizing- Right ... my goodness. Okay. Right. 

April Javist: And parents expect schools to teach their kids to read. They expect that. But in California, you don't get tested until the end of the third grade. So if your s- child's struggling to read, there's a, there's a way you wouldn't find out until literally the summer between third and fourth grade.

That's 

Jeff Holden: a- One, two, three years, no testing? 

April Javist: No testing. That's changed now. In the, in the l- last couple of years, that's changed. We now have an early screener that, which is mandated by, by legislation. I think it's SB 114. And e- early screeners have to happen in every school, kindergarten, first, and second grade, every year.

So that's good. The next step is gonna be, what are you gonna do about the kids who are struggling? 

Mm-hmm. 

That's the next [00:07:00] question. But question one is getting some information about kids' struggle. So that's, that's a good question that you asked. 

Jeff Holden: And that's what got you started- Right ... in 2020. And, and- Right.

April Javist: So three goals ... here we 

Jeff Holden: are six years later. 

April Javist: Right. Culturally relevant, diverse books in kids' hands, in homes. So pre-pandemic, everybody talked about how kids don't have books in the home. And so I thought, "Well, what are we g- what can we do to put books in the homes that don't have books in the homes?" And then I met Janay Brown Wood, who is an author here in Sacramento, and she was teaching at Sac State at the time.

And she did all this research in mirrors and windows, and we'll talk about that a little later, I think- 

Mm-hmm ... 

about what, what it means for, to have culturally relevant books in front of you as a, as a kid of color, and, uh, and seeing yourself and how important that is. It's called Windows and Mirrors. So we decided that we would really deepen our work and do that.

We started out with a book giveaway that was like, we bought 30,000 [00:08:00] books for $5,000. You know, screaming deal. 18 cents a book. But they were a lot of Disney books, princess books. And the kids, we didn't... They, they were okay, but we... No relationships came out of it. No relationships at all. And so I, I had to think, "Okay, what, what can we do to deepen this," right?

And so what we did to deepen it was align the bag of books to the kids at a school site, to be very intentional, go after the school sites that had the highest Title I ratings so that we were getting to the poorest kids, and we, we built the program like that. And that's been very successful. That has built lots of relationships for us across all of Sacramento.

Jeff Holden: You know, let's, let's go ahead and get into that culturally relevant books because- Yeah ... I'm not sure everybody understands what you mean by that. And- Yeah ... 

April Javist: you- Well, what book did you read as a boy that you liked? Tell me a book. 

Jeff Holden: Oh, boy, I, I mean, uh, Tom Sawyer- Just pick one ... type book. Okay. Okay, you're a kid.

Well, there you are. 

April Javist: Tom Sawyer. Right. So he looks like you. 

Jeff Holden: [00:09:00] Yep. 

April Javist: Right? So you probably liked that book. Right? So because he looked like- I lived on 

Jeff Holden: a creek, and I always had- Yeah ... this thing that I was gonna get a raft, and I was kind of- There you go ... 'cause the creek intersected with the Mississippi River some south.

So you kept going south from Chicago, you could take- Yep ... Salt Creek and end up there. 

April Javist: So now I'll turn that, and I'll say, that's why seeing yourself in a book matters. Yeah. You're, you're talking about the story. Engagement. You're remembering things about it. You probably found yourself liking it 'cause you like seeing yourself.

Yeah. Kids like seeing themselves, right? And if they don't see themselves, they're like, "Oh, this isn't for me." So a kid seeing themself in a book is what's so important as the protagonist. Mm-hmm. So that's why we even further gender the bag so that every little girl and every little boy sees themselves.

And it's, the important part is the little boy because there's not as many boy books written as girl books. Oh, interesting. There's probably four girl books written to every boy book, you know? And so we gotta get those boys interested in seeing themselves. 

Jeff Holden: Taking it [00:10:00] beyond the cultural part of it- Yeah

you mentioned grade level reading. Right. And there's, there's a significance to that- 

April Javist: Mm-hmm ... in 

Jeff Holden: its gauging- Mm-hmm ... for the student. Mm-hmm. What is it? Lee, because there's some things, if you don't read by- Right ... you will- Right, right, right ... likely- I know where you're 

April Javist: headed here. So grade level reading is like a state measure, right?

So but, but the way ac- the, the way school works is that you learn to read TK through third grade. Okay? So those are the years you're learning to read. Mm-hmm. In the fourth grade, you're reading to learn, so it's turned on you. If you are not reading at grade level, that means that you're reading to learn not at grade level.

Mm-hmm. That means you're not just falling behind in this one skill, but you're falling behind in every single topic now because you don't have the skill. It's like if a baker, I don't know, didn't have a spoon, right? Right. Like, you know, they had a stove and, but didn't have a spoon or, or [00:11:00] a way to stir the ingredients, right?

Jeff Holden: Like- You're gonna work a lot harder to figure out- Yeah ... how this is supposed to happen. 

April Javist: Right. 

Jeff Holden: And then maybe fail 'cause it's so difficult. 

April Javist: Right. 

Jeff Holden: Well- I'm not gonna do that. I can't figure it out ... 

April Javist: it's, well, we're not teaching it the right way. So one of our goals is evidence-based curriculum to, to promote and to advocate for curriculum teacher training, and eventually after-school programming that aligns with the science of reading.

We just got a bill passed in Sacramento, I mean, in California. I mean, in Sacramento, we- It starts here ... we, we built the coalition here. But California Ed Voice did such a great job, a unanimous vote in the Senate and the House to pass a discretionary science of reading bill. Um, Mississippi passed a non-discretionary science of reading bill, and inside of three years they went from 22% to 85% third grade reading rate.

Think about that. 

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. Right? 

April Javist: Ours is discretionary, so the job is not done. We have the legislation, but- Whose, 

Jeff Holden: at 

April Javist: whose 

Jeff Holden: discretion? 

April Javist: It depends on in the school [00:12:00] district who's choosing curriculum, who's making the decisions. So we have a district, we have some districts that are district-wide, that, you know, do things as a district.

We have some districts where things happen at a school site level, and we have some systems where teachers make decisions. And teachers can have... There, there are some of our districts where a teacher could have in one second grade class one curriculum and another second grade class another curriculum.

That's not helpful to kids- No ... who are transitioning and all these kind of things, so. And there's a lot of pushback on we can't have everything, you know, it can't be one size fits all. Actually, reading is a one size fits all. It's a skill. It's just a skill. It's a muscle building. It's like, you know, if I went to the gym and I said, "Well, I'm gonna build my biceps in a different way.

I'm gonna do some leg lifts." Well, it won't work. 

Jeff Holden: It- It's a great analogy ... it 

April Javist: just won't work. So what we need to do is we need to give people the right barbells. We need to give kids the right, the right instruction. It needs to be [00:13:00] explicit, it needs to be direct, and it needs to be based on phenomes, oral language, phonics, fluency, comprehension, and vocabulary, all of those things all of the time.

Jeff Holden: And I would imagine in order to do that properly, there has to be some regular assessment that says you are either progressing or not. 

April Javist: Right. Right, and you need teachers who are trained in that, and you need colleges to train the teachers to do that. There's a whole system there that has to get rocked.

Jeff Holden: Well, in a little bit of the prep work that I was doing, I noticed, not that I was doing a little bit of prep work, but in the prep work- Mm-hmm ... as a result of our conversation prior- Yeah ... just looking at the way that the systems are set up in various states, the greater the accountability- shockingly, the greater the performance from the students.

Well, that can't be too surprising. Right? So Mississippi- No, I say it, I say that a bit facetiously Okay. '

April Javist: Cause, you know, Mississippi, one of their accountability measures, which I know this is hard to hear, [00:14:00] is that if you don't get to the th- if you don't pass that third grade test, you don't go to the fourth grade.

Right. 

So that's holding everybody accountable, the teacher, the kid, the par- the, the parent. And, but what they also do in Mississippi is they put an awful lot around that third grader. They give them a lot of extra resources. Mm-hmm. They work hard to create success because accountability, right? They don't, they don't wanna be like, "Yeah, we did this thing," and then everybody flunks.

Jeff Holden: Right. That's not- Both ways- Right ... for the student's benefit of, "Oh, I didn't pass, but now I can read better," or vice versa, "I got pushed forward, but I can't read"- Right ... "and now I'm not gonna make it to eighth grade"- Right ... or high school. We push a lot of kids forward here. I mean- 

April Javist: I know ... it's, it's, it's, it's stunning.

And so I think, I think the Mississippi crew, they all got hired out in Maryland. 

Jeff Holden: I saw that. 

April Javist: I don't know if you saw that Maryland just passed the same law, state policy- Oh, I did not see that, no ... that said if you don't pass that third grade test, you don't go to the fourth grade. It was about, I don't know, six months ago, and I thought, "Oh, there they are.

They're just doing, they're doing... They have [00:15:00] a rinse and repeat approach." 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, Mississippi 2.0 I saw. 

April Javist: Yep, and they're, they're doing it. 

Jeff Holden: Well, and, and it's important. The, the article that we're speaking to is, it's New York Times. You can look it up. Just go to- Yeah ... New York Times and find Mississippi- Yeah

story or something. It'll, it'll show up. 

April Javist: Yeah, I wanna say one thing. They call it a Mississippi miracle, but a couple of us in the world of this, in, in this literacy world just wanna make note that Mississippi calls it the Mississippi Marathon. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. Good. Good. So they have- So no miracle. 

April Javist: Yeah, it's not a miracle.

It just- It's they've worked very hard. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, over time. I saw in 2013 is when they started this process. Right. 

April Javist: They got the bill, and actually it was 2011 with a Run for Literacy. 

Jeff Holden: Ah. 

April Javist: And then that money went to creating a policy in 2013, which got implemented in 2016. 

Jeff Holden: And keeping in mind, this is one of the states that has the lowest numbers, um, of dollar investment per student in the country.

April Javist: Poor, diverse. It debunks the whole idea that diversity and poverty have a direct impact on a [00:16:00] child's ability to learn to read. Right. It doesn't. What has an impact on a child's ability to learn to read is the instruction around them. The way 

Jeff Holden: they're taught. 

April Javist: And, and that we all need to know something about this.

Like, just like we all know something about recycling, we all need to know something about how we teach reading- Yeah ... and how we learn reading. It just, we just all need to know. 

Jeff Holden: So Sacramento Literacy Foundation- Yeah ... are you working at the teacher level, the school level, the student level? Who is the direct beneficiary, or who do you directly impact with- I think 

April Javist: almost all of the above Um, because of the, the three things that we do.

The third thing that we do is we give money to community programs that are doing summer reading, because summer reading loss is a big deal, right? So I think kids benefit directly from the books in their hands. We also have an initiative in WellSpace now, where we're giving every zero to five-year-old a book who comes to their wellness visit.

Wonderful. And so those are also... It's a very low income crowd. So who [00:17:00] benefits there? The parents, the kids, the doctors, the da- I mean, all the people benefit, right? Because it's a relationship builder. What I can say is these books have built more relationships than I ever anticipated, and I mean positive, solid, go-to, oh, you can be trusted, oh, we can do this together, oh, we can...

We, we can be very explicit, we can be very intentional, we can be anti-racist in a very positive way, and, and, and we can get the right things 

done. Mm-hmm. 

And I think there's something about it that everybody just likes it. And so it's really building good relationships. And I know that sounds odd, but that's the best thing that's come out of the...

With, with the drive, is at all levels. So I think teachers in schools listen to me more. I think- 

Jeff Holden: Well, who doesn't want our students to do better? 

April Javist: Right. So I think for, for me, like, I have a district that wrote me and said, "These are the curriculum we're thinking about doing. What should we do?" And I said, "Oh, let me send this to the people I know who do curriculum."

They sent it back. I sent it to them. Here's their answer. Right? [00:18:00] So I just try to help facilitate more understanding, more openness, more c- cross-conversation. You know, you don't wanna start blaming anybody, 'cause this is a national problem. 

Jeff Holden: It, yeah, it's- This is not a California problem ... everybody's gotta be aware of it.

I mean, 

April Javist: we could point fingers at folks, but, you know, that would be another waste of time. I think what we need to do is get ourselves all working toward the same goal. And I think the positive nature of helping kids read... I mean, if you saw kids getting these books, you'd know right away how great it was.

Kids say one of the following three things. They say, "This is the best day of my life." Really? Yep. They say... 'Cause it's, it's like a $100 bag of books that they're getting brand new. It's kinda different. They say, "Maybe you don't wanna give me these books 'cause I can't read. Are you sure?" So that's the kid that we're really focused on.

And they say, "I see myself. I've never seen myself." So- 

Jeff Holden: There's your cultural relevance ... the... Right. 

April Javist: Those are the three things we hear from the kiddos. And we talk to them directly. We give them the books directly. [00:19:00] You know, we have a, a one-to-one relationship. So I think they're gonna grow up and, you know, be literacy warriors.

And, 

Jeff Holden: well, and remember that, too. Yeah. And what I like about that, too, is when they get something like that at school- Mm-hmm ... they're excited. They take it home to mom and dad, too. Right. And mom and dad can engage then. That's right. You know? Or, or mom or dad or, or whatever the situation- Or whoever the parents are

may be at home, right? That's right. 

April Javist: That's right. And we provide- 'Cause they're excited about it ... a parent piece in that bag- Ah, great ... so that parents have a little bit of information about how they can help their kids on each of the pillars of the science of reading that I just listed before. Yes. So that we have little tips of things that they can do.

Jeff Holden: Let's take a break before we hear more from April Javist on children's literacy to let those who make the program possible share their stories. 

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It's a partner in your purpose. Explore your options today at westernhealth.com. Western Health Advantage, healthcare with heart, designed for those who give back. You have something that I think is, uh, this is a great segue to this- Yeah ... this piece of information that you have that you have created on the website, and that is the map.

April Javist: Oh, the map. I know, right? 

Jeff Holden: Which blew me away- Yeah ... because obviously you wanna go to the [00:23:00] schools that you're familiar with or that your children went, went to. Right. And, and mine are, you know, older now, so- Right ... I'm just referencing back to what it must have been like then. I'm sure it was better then, but maybe not.

No. And go, go ahead and explain that to us, because- I'm gonna say no it wasn't ... it is the most fabulous thing in... There's an accountability piece. Yeah, it's an accountability piece- It- ... is exactly what it is ... which I'm sure a lot of people aren't thrilled about it either. Um, 

April Javist: you know, we, we try to keep it easy.

The map is a GIS system. It puts every school that takes the CAASPP, that- CAASPP is what? That's a, that's a test to say are you proficient at grade level in math and English. 

Okay. And 

we just have the third grade rates, because that's the big indicator. 

Yeah. I 

mean, until we really are gon- We don't need nuanced data until we get to nuance.

But right now, more kids can't read than can, so- Right ... let's just stick with the simple stuff. Let's get them reading by third grade, right? That's the idea. So, and the school, the map says it'll, it'll show you all the demographics of the site, the, the Title I level, the, you know, the [00:24:00] ethnicity breakdown. All of those things are there.

Mm-hmm. But the dashboard shows truancy and reading rates, and how it's progressed or not over the last year. And that's meant to be a quick look, 'cause really attendance is so important. And so we know schools are after attendance, so we, we think that they'll go to the map because their attendance numbers are there, and they're working hard at them.

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

April Javist: There is- It's how they're 

Jeff Holden: paid. 

April Javist: Yeah. There is, I think, a lot of reluctance to look at the data of how many kids are reading or not sometimes for people. I think there's a tendency to wanna talk about the positive things happening inside the data, and that's fair. If I were gonna change anything with the data, I would change, I would separate out the first-year students from everybody else- 

Jeff Holden: Hmm

April Javist: 'cause the first-year students who immigrate in are a different kind of child. 

Jeff Holden: And they do influence that? 

April Javist: And they, they influence the overall score, and I might pull those two things apart just so that- We can see the kids who are attritioning versus the kids who are moving, and then we might do- Mm-hmm

more to keep kids from moving, [00:25:00] right? Something like that. But otherwise, I think our schools, they're, it, if they're not succeeding then they don't have a path to success, so it's hard to look at the data. So that's what we keep trying to provide, and we go to school boards and we say, "Hey, look at this." And then, you know, sometimes people, they're, they're not comfortable, but a lot of times they're like, "Good, I'm glad that we're saying something about the real data, 'cause I am tired of failing."

Jeff Holden: Right. 

April Javist: And, and there is some, "Well, it'll be so hard for teachers," but here's what I say to every sixth grade and up teacher: "What would it be like if all your kids could read at grade level? What would you be teaching then?" Because that's a different story for them. 

Mm-hmm. They don't 

have a classroom of everybody at grade level.

They have a classroom of 30 to 40% of their kids at grade level. That's- 

Jeff Holden: Which means the other 50 to 60 or 70%, they're struggling to- Are behind ... to, to bring up to speed, right. That's right. 

April Javist: So that's what you're spending your time. Right. Everybody's remediating the reading loss. Everybody. Mm-hmm. And I mean in every classroom everywhere.

Jeff Holden: If there's one thing somebody [00:26:00] takes out of this conversation, go to the site and look at- Yeah ... those schools of interest- Yeah ... if you have school-aged children especially, and begin to ask the questions. And, and not to be of, of a critical nature- Right ... but to say, "What can we do differently? Because that's not acceptable."

April Javist: Right. How can we come together and fix this? 

Jeff Holden: Right. '

April Javist: Cause there's answers. There's- Yes ... there's, there's real- Yeah, there are 

Jeff Holden: solutions ... 

April Javist: there are solutions. It's a little easier, it could be easier than homelessness and poverty if we just put our heads down. I mean, Mississippi shows it. 

Yeah. 

Three years of implementation, they moved the needle from 22% to 85%.

That's a state. Now, that's a state about a million people larger than our county. 

Mm-hmm. 

So I say to Sacramento County, beat Mississippi. 

Jeff Holden: There we go. That's the goal. 

April Javist: Yeah, that's the goal. Beat Mississippi, you know? 

Jeff Holden: Well, and it's so true when you think about what that would take, and it isn't just the burden of the school or the teachers.

The parents can make a big, big difference here. 

April Javist: You and me can make a difference. Yes. I mean, I'm a parent and a grandparent, but even as just citizens we can make a difference. Yes. [00:27:00] All of us can make a difference, and we all are gonna have to know something about it. 

Mm-hmm. 

Just like recycling, it took everybody knowing about recycling to start making a difference.

Yeah. And you know how they taught recycling in California? Through the kids. 

Jeff Holden: Oh, bring it home. Through the- That's right ... through the schools Started in the schools. Took it home. 

April Javist: Yep. 

Jeff Holden: Yep. Isn't that 

April Javist: interesting? No, mom, 

Jeff Holden: dad, dad, don't throw that away. Right. That's, that's good for something. 

April Javist: Right. So we're already at an advantage because the kids are at the schools.

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

April Javist: So. 

Jeff Holden: Another great segue into Who you collaborate with. 

April Javist: Yeah 

Jeff Holden: Who are the people? Who, who's in your sphere of influence that is of significance and support? 

April Javist: Well, I think, um, there's a lot of people of significance, of support. So what I wanted... I wrote, I wrote the list down. So first, we, we have 3,000 donors- Love it

who give every year, and, um, we... we're building on that. So individual donors are one of our most critical components of our success, I think. And by donors, that 

Jeff Holden: could be books too, not just [00:28:00] monetary, right? 

April Javist: Well, no, donors. I'm talking about donors. I'm talking about financial donors. Okay, 

Jeff Holden: financial, okay. 

April Javist: I'm...

They're, they're the, they're the bedrock that we are building this organization on. Okay. So if you give to the Sacramento Literacy Foundation, thank you. 

Jeff Holden: Yes. 

April Javist: So other people. So Twin Rivers, I say significantly because as a whole district, they're, they partner with us. Awesome. And we partner with them because they have introduced the science of reading to 300 of their teachers through a year-long training, core training.

They are serious about getting their kids reading. Teacher training's the step one. Right. And they did it before legislation came. They did it on their own, realizing that they've got to get those kids reading, and they're the poorest school district. 

Jeff Holden: And well, what's gonna be interesting there is you're gonna have a litmus test because you're gonna be able to show- That's right

look at what's happening here. That's right. And if that starts to outperform our other school districts- Right ... it's gonna be like, "Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa." Twin 

April Javist: Rivers did outperform in last year in the increase. Now, it wasn't signi- in my mind, it wasn't a huge increase. It was, like, a 3 1/2% increase, but they outperformed everybody else in their increase.

Jeff Holden: [00:29:00] Oh, wow. 

April Javist: So it- At 

Jeff Holden: 3 1/2%? 

April Javist: Yeah, so that... Yeah. Right. Right. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. You 

April Javist: got it. I expect in the next couple of years we'll see those numbers change. So then other people who, we, you know, WellSpace Health, I mentioned. Yes, 

Jeff Holden: which is great to hear. 

April Javist: Oh, so exciting. And then we have a, the, what's called the Sacramento Literacy Coalition, which we bring together, and it's a lot of people from all over who, who convene on a monthly basis, and then we, we've done festivals, and then we're also...

This, this is the group who kind of really advocated for the science of reading. 

Mm-hmm. 

And then in terms of, you know, governments, it's, uh, the Sacramento County, the City of Sacramento, and the City of Rancho Cordova have all- Love to hear that ... bought into some degree, which is great. We'd like to see Cordova step up a little bit more.

They've got a lot of poor kids that they could help. We've partnered with Always Dream, helped them get into, into Twin Rivers, which is a good program for parents to have books. We've partnered with the Kelly Foundation, and I would just say a nod to them. They, because they're willing to support unrestricted, they're willing to support [00:30:00] growth.

And I, I would say that part of w- what made it possible for us to have a book drive separate and like a get serious so that we could bring a well space, and next we're gonna put classroom libraries into these same classrooms with 50 book libraries. So their grants made it possible for me to expand into that area, and we've asked them for another one, and I, I know they're supportive in operations.

So what a big difference a granter like that makes. Mm-hmm. And so I really am grateful to them. We have a lot of donors and people and schools, and, you know, and we have parents, and we, we work with also this, there's this new coalition that's come about. It's called the Sacramento County Education Coalition.

Hmm. They're very focused on African American outcomes, reading outcomes, though, in Sac City Unified and in Twin Rivers. So we align with them a lot on that and think that's important. Um, personally, I'm aligning with candidates who know how to hold people accountable. 

Jeff Holden: Political candidates. 

April Javist: Yep. Mm-hmm.

Political candidates because I feel like [00:31:00] our district seats are being used a lot to build careers. So I think everybody should look at those races and make sure that the people they're voting for have education experience. I think that's super important. You know, so there's a lot of little things that we can all think about and do, but these are all the kinds of people that we're collaborating with on every level.

Jeff Holden: A- and you should. You should permeate the entire community- Right ... because it's reading. Right. It's reading. You must do this. It's like seeing. Yep. If you can't see, you can't function- Yep ... to the degree that everybody else could. Right. If you can't read properly, you can't function to the degree- That's right

that everybody else could, back to that grade level, whatever that grade level is. 

April Javist: That's right. That's exactly right. You cannot function fully in our society if you are a struggling reader. Mm-hmm. You know, reading and not reading is literally attached to every major life outcome. I mean, it starts with high school graduation, but then it's college attainment, then it's career attainment, then it's jail and incarceration rates.

Right. Then it's health. Then it's mental health. I mean, how do you think a kid who struggles to read feels after 10 years of struggling to [00:32:00] read? Right. How about anxious and depressed? 

Mm-hmm. 

Just as a start. How about a distraction in the classroom? 

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

April Javist: Right? 

Jeff Holden: And then what does that look like the way they act out?

April Javist: Right. That's what I'm saying. 

Jeff Holden: Right. 

April Javist: That's right. So then they get in trouble for that. And I heard once somebody say to a parent of a kid who ne- had an IEP and struggled reading that the kid just wasn't motivated. 

Jeff Holden: IEP is? 

April Javist: That's a individualized education plan- Plan. Okay ... I think is what it stands for.

And they said, "Y- your, your kid isn't motivated." And I thought about it, and I thought, "Well, that kid went to class every day. Every single day, that kid showed up, so when you say you're not motivated, what are you saying?" 

Mm-hmm. 

Right? So we do blame kids for their own struggle, and kids don't have a way to articulate their struggle 'cause they're feeling ashamed.

What I've noticed is a kid who can read has no idea who can't read A kid who can't read knows everybody who can read 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. Right? 'Cause, yep, that, that's an interesting observation, and, and what a painful [00:33:00] one. 

April Javist: Right. And, and I think how we've missed reading because readers and non-readers don't- 

Mm-hmm

don't connect. Non-readers stay away from readers. Mm-hmm. They feel like they just stay away. Mm-hmm. So I think that we've missed it because readers would be the people who would look at the problem and read about it, and go, "Oh, we need to do something about it." Right? 

Jeff Holden: And the non can't. Right. Can't engage in the conversation.

April Javist: Right, because we're not h- or if they could, we don't have a way for them to- Right ... because, again, we're in an information age. 

Jeff Holden: And so many times, as a result of that, it gets physical. Yep. Because they're intimidated by it. They're, they're uncomfortable about it. 

April Javist: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: And it's, it's really unfortunate. 

April Javist: Right.

Jeff Holden: But to your point, I think when, somewhere in one of our conversations, you said it's the fix for everything. Literally, it can be the fix for- It- ... everything ... 

April Javist: it, it, it would trim every one of these causes in a huge way. Yep. If we got everybody reading, we'd see a decrease in all these other social issues.

Mm-hmm. Every single one of them. I, I, I mean, you know, [00:34:00] I really think so. I mean, maybe. Give me one that you can't- I can't 

Jeff Holden: argue with you ... I mean- I totally agree with you. 

April Javist: I mean, I, I welcome somebody to give me a social issue that I can't explain how it's attached to reading directly through research.

Jeff Holden: Right. 

April Javist: It's all been there. 

Jeff Holden: Let's talk a little bit about funding, 'cause you mentioned donors as- Yeah ... collaborators as well. Yeah. How, how is the organization funded? 

April Javist: So we're funded largely by individual donors. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. 

April Javist: We have a whole- Good for you ... direct mail- Which is great ... process. We, um, have a newsletter that I gave you.

Yes, I've got it right here. You might give it an envelope, too, that- We'll put this- You can always just put a little check in that envelope and make a donation yourself, Jeff. So that's one way that we do it. We have endowments, and we're always building endowments. Wonderful. So endowments, um, we have an operations endowment, and we have a summer reading children's literacy endowment.

We're growing those. Since 2005, we started out with a million dollar endowment from a lovely and amazing woman named Nancy Lawrence, who left us a million dollars in her estate. What a great start we got. Mm-hmm. And so we're giving money to summer reading programming, which is great, but also we're [00:35:00] giving money to our operations because that is sustainability there.

Mm-hmm. And then recently with the book drives, we've really seen people more interested in those. So we're raising money for, uh, the book drives and for expanding those book drives. So those are the, um, those, so those come with grants. You know, we're d- little bit government grants. We're getting used to it.

Painfully, but yes. Well, what I do is I, I ask for money for direct labor costs, and I take care of all the rest so that I don't- Okay ... have to get into the minutiae of that reporting, and then we, we back end the rest of it with our individual donor base. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. 

April Javist: So it's- 

Jeff Holden: How many people do you employ? Two. Okay.

I would say I didn't, I couldn't imagine it'd be a very big staff. 

April Javist: Nope, me and Rigo. It's Rigo Tovar and April Javis are the two staff members, and then we have an intern, Tamara Robinson, who does some social media, a little bit of social media each week. 

Jeff Holden: And a cadre of volunteers that will step up when you need help, right?

We have 

April Javist: the most, um, we call them our dream team. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

April Javist: And we have about five folks who come all the time. [00:36:00] If we need something and we haven't really seen it, they come, whether that's an administrative thing on my end for the re- renewals or if it's a book sorting because, you know, we got a grant and they wanna get to the school in a week.

Yeah. You know, we, we just have this amazing group of volunteers, Anita and Leticia, and we, we just... I mean, they're, they're our, our, our, our two top f- folks, but then we, we have a lot of... We have Ricardo. We have Eric. We just have a lot of people- I love the shout-outs. Who f- They're gonna love this Yeah. Well, I hope so- Yes

because they really do make the difference. They do. I mean, they really do. We have, uh, Martine who comes. We just have a lot of people who show up a lot for us, and then I have a great board- 

Yeah ... 

who get the message. We're not a... W- We, we get along. We, we all agree that we need to help these kids, and we're, we're, we're kind of all just about it.

Jeff Holden: I'm gonna ask you this next question- Yeah ... and I know you've got an answer. Yeah. I'm just gonna be curious to see where the answer goes. Uh-oh. This is the big [00:37:00] vision. Okay. Somebody comes in, like Nancy Lawrence, only bigger, says, "April, love what you're doing. Blank check." Yeah. "Give me a good idea. If I like it, you got it."

Yeah. What would it look like? What would be... What would you do if money was no object? 

April Javist: Well, if, if you gave me a blank check, there's two ways I could go with this, but I'm gonna say, I'm gonna talk about the $100 million I did ask Meta. What's his- Oh, 

Jeff Holden: Zuckerberg. 

April Javist: Zuckerberg. Yes. So his, his... They have a foundation, and I asked them for $100 million.

And what I wanted to do was I wanted to put 50 million into an endowment for programming and 50 million into an endowment for operations. And then I wanted to go home and get all the right people there and make literacy happen in Sacramento and in California 'cause what you need is you need, you need the sustainability to do the job.

Mm-hmm. 

If we had the right group of people doing the job, and they, money was not an issue for them, [00:38:00] a lot would get done. So I could tell you what I would do with the money, per se, but I think the smarter move would be- I like the bigger vision ... I think the smarter move would be is to create the money and the sustainability and let other people step in who probably have even way better ideas than me and, and, and could make it much bigger.

I mean, I'd like to get some of the kids who struggled to read in this foundation to start working with these kids- Mm-hmm ... 'cause they know. Yeah. I mean, if we could get their ideas, if we could hear from them, that would be amazing. 

Jeff Holden: Right. And I'm sure there's, well, there's so many that have gone through it.

Yeah. Just to, to understand what that's like. 

April Javist: Yeah. Yeah. More, more than haven't. So- 

Jeff Holden: Right ... Mark, Mark, if you're listening, we would really love that $100 million because- There you go ... there's a great idea here. 

April Javist: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: And it would fix it in the state of California. This is where you're based, and all those people now- Yeah

it would raise the ability of your choices- Yeah ... because so many more kids would come up and engage. Even Meta, 

April Javist: even Meta struggles with the entry-level workforce. 

Jeff Holden: Sure. 

April Javist: Everybody's [00:39:00] struggling right now with the entry-level workforce. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, and it's not gonna get any better if we- No ... don't get this corrected.

April Javist: That's right. I, I think that's correct. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. And it's easier to not correct it because of screen time. 

April Javist: I don't, you know- Oh, I like this. 

Jeff Holden: Good. Gi- gi- You know, screen time- Tell me it's not ... I, 

April Javist: I'm not, I'm, I'm not... You know, screen time, sure. I, I have my own frustrations as a parent with my kids' screen time. So there's that.

And if, and, and my advice to parents is don't buy your kid a device. Let them buy it themselves, and let them pay the monthly fee. Kinda 

Jeff Holden: like the car back- That's it ... in the day, right? 

April Javist: That's it. Like, let them pay for it, and let them have that relationship to it, right, as opposed to the entertainment relationship.

Yes. Make it more... But, but beside that, screens can also teach kids to read. Yeah. They can also help kids with things that they're struggling with and that they don't have to tell people about. So, you know, screens can also have a positive impact- Yes ... and a negative. I think how we use screens is starting to get talked about a lot, but we put screens in front of kids.

As Rigo would tell you, it's our generation that put those screens in front of kids, so we should stop whining [00:40:00] about it- Yeah ... and think about how we're gonna, like, shape it. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, and not have it be the babysitter but the teacher. That's right. 'Cause it does, it's there. 

April Javist: Yeah. You just 

Jeff Holden: have to seek it out.

Greatest need. Coming back from the, the big vision, what is the greatest need today? 

April Javist: Great, when you say that- For the 

Jeff Holden: organization ... 

April Javist: for our organization, well, I think we're doing the right things, so growing would be our greatest need. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. 

April Javist: Getting bigger, getting more people who wanna raise money, getting more people who wanna give away books.

That would be, you know, and getting people who maybe know more about legislation and holding people accountable, right? Just growing the organization so that it can focus on the streams 'cause those are the streams. They're, they're, they're, they're not changing. 

Jeff Holden: And it's that advocacy part of the organization, too, that is significant.

April Javist: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: It, it's necessary. 

April Javist: Right. We just use our labor for that. We don't fund any do- Right, right ... you know, any legislation. We don't fund campaigns because we can't. But, but we, what we do is we use our people. We use our donor base. We use our coalition. We, we, we gather people together. So it's kind of grassroots-y- Mm-hmm

the way that we [00:41:00] advocate. 

Jeff Holden: Probably better from the bottom up as opposed to top down anyhow. 

April Javist: Right. Well, I have a theory about that. I think change happens when you have bottom up, top down, inside, outside. Oh, you 100%. Yeah. I think you need the whole, the whole environment to make change. Then you 

Jeff Holden: truly have- Yeah

change. 

April Javist: That's right. 

Jeff Holden: You know, as opposed to bits and pieces- Yeah ... and factions. Right. What does success look like to you? 

April Javist: Everybody at grade level reading 

Jeff Holden: And that would come from assessment A, 

April Javist: yeah, a CA- a CAASPP assessment that had our third graders at 85% grade level would be, I, would be just an amazing thing.

Yeah 

I mean, amazing thing. Like, that's, that would be the first level of success And, and 

Jeff Holden: for people who aren't, aren't watching, don't see this on YouTube, they're listening to us however they get their podcasts, I'm looking at you- Yeah ... you are beaming when I I ask that. Yeah. I mean, you can just see it.

Yeah It's, it's a, a visceral expression of- Yeah ... that's what it would look like. 

April Javist: I'm a democracy advocate, Jeff, [00:42:00] and what I can tell you is if everybody was reading, we'd start hearing from everybody, and I wanna hear from everybody. Yeah I'm tired of hearing from the people we always hear from. I wanna hear from the other folks that we- Right

don't hear from. I wanna know what we're all missing. I wanna give them agency. Mm-hmm. I'd like to see what that's like. I'm not afraid of that. Yeah. I like that idea. 

Jeff Holden: So we're gonna take a little bit of a, a, a deviation here. Okay This is where we go beyond the mission. All right. But you have something that I want you to share- Oh

because this is April. 

April Javist: Right 

Jeff Holden: And then we're gonna get into a few little, you know, fun tidbits about it, too, but- Okay ... but who is April? 

April Javist: Well, you know, you, you, you said, "Who is April?" And so I wrote that I'm graduated from Sue Q- Which is, which is different, 

Jeff Holden: by the way, than, than most people taking the, the initiative to do it

So how- Oh ... I'm gonna ... I, I wanna hear it because- Oh ... what we discussed, I think, is important for people to hear. It ... 

April Javist: I, so I wrote down that I'm a graduate of Sue Q Elementary School, which used to be Peter Burnett. I was there from kindergarten to the sixth grade. I am a graduate of Cordova High through some [00:43:00] various moves and things that happened in my life, and that was in the class of '79, which is a great and well-known legendary class, mostly because of athletics, and I am a revolutionary at heart.

And so I think for me, the whole coming back home, I'm from Sacramento, so coming back home, I'm, I was looking for a revolu- I've been looking for the revolution since communism fell, right? 1989. You're like, "Well, where's the revolution if it's not in this Cold War," right? It's hard to figure out, and it's not gonna be violent, a violent

'cause- No ... 'cause you can't beat the military infrastructure of any of these people, so you can't fight like that, so the fight will be cultural, right? And so I've been looking and looking, and through this kind of circuitous route that, you know, started at the library, and that's a top democracy institution, then bringing me to the Literacy Foundation, I realized, oh, it's reading that's the revolution.

So I'm passionate 'cause I think I'm here. I think this is the [00:44:00] revolution. I think everybody reads, game over. We win. We win We win. Yeah We all win. Yep It's, it's a, mm, it's just that little thing. So that's, that's what I wrote about. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. So, so on the- Okay ... on the premise that I can't wait to ask this one- 

April Javist: Oh, no

Jeff Holden: in your leisure- 

April Javist: Yeah ... 

Jeff Holden: what's your favorite pastime? 

April Javist: Golf 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, I expect you'd just say reading. No. A book. 

April Javist: No, I, I... You know, love of reading is different than reading. I can read, and I do an awful lot of reading. I would imagine. Every so often I read a book, but love reading? I'm 65, my eyes hurt. You know, I'm not gonna say I love reading, and 'cause I think that's a, that's a setup.

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

April Javist: But, um- It 

Jeff Holden: was a setup ... 

April Javist: golf is my favorite thing to do, and I'm working on my handicap. 

Jeff Holden: Oh, that's great, which is what? 

April Javist: No, I'm not saying. Ah. Every golfer knows they're terrible, so. 

Jeff Holden: Early bird or night owl? 

April Javist: Early bird. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. 

April Javist: For sure. 

Jeff Holden: Long drive: podcast, music, or silence? 

April Javist: [00:45:00] Silence. 

Jeff Holden: Mm. Okay. Comfort food.

April Javist: Popcorn with butter and brewer's yeast. 

Jeff Holden: Oh, I have heard about this brewer's yeast. I haven't tried it yet, but I've heard it's supposedly really delicious. 

April Javist: Nu- nutritional yeast, yeah. That's my f- favorite little snack. 

Jeff Holden: Best piece of advice you've ever received. 

April Javist: Best piece of advice. Try not to let people hide behind you.

Jeff Holden: Mm. Favorite movie. 

April Javist: I don't know why, but this movie called Algiers comes to mind, and it's so bizarre that that would be the one that came to mind. Don't know it. Now you're g- I'm gonna have 

Jeff Holden: to check it out. 

April Javist: It's a black and white film, and it's, it's about revolution. 

Jeff Holden: Oh, perfectly appropriate. So. 

April Javist: But I don't know why that came to mind though.

I don't know if I have a favorite film. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. 

April Javist: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: If somebody wants to support the mission... Uh, we're, we're back to, back to we're away from the, uh, the- Okay. ... the lightning [00:46:00] round, yes. This will be an easier question, right? If somebody wants to support the mission, what's the best way to find out more about you and the organization?

April Javist: Yep, you can call us, you can email us, and you can tap in as a donor or volunteer or a literacy advocate, right? We all have potential to read, so we all belong in this literacy community, and I think our job is to give everybody active things they can do based on their interests and capacity. But I wanna say everybody belongs because it's a skill everybody either has or needs, and so we want everybody.

Call us, 

Jeff Holden: email us- Email us, website ... 

April Javist: touch in. We'll, we're, we're, we, we have, we have, like, 100 people who wanna volunteer tutor, but we don't have a tutoring program. So we're gonna talk to a school district about doing the training for all of them and putting them in their classrooms, just low, low, low touch, but, like, let- Yeah

let's do something with them, right? Yes. That kind of thing, so let's, let's, like, my army of people who know a little something. 

Jeff Holden: Good. Well- Yeah ... what we'll do is we'll put this- That's Rico's idea ... and, and we'll put this in the show [00:47:00] notes too so- Yeah ... people know that there's a variety of different ways they can reach out.

Yeah. 'Cause not everybody's comfortable going to a website. They may not have a computer, but they wanna engage, and they, they can engage. Yeah. So that'll be helpful. Do you wanna go ahead and give that number? 

April Javist: The phone number? The phone number, yeah. Yeah, 916-836-3540, and I'm extension two. Call me anytime.

Jeff Holden: Okay. Yeah. And the email? 

April Javist: The e- my email is april@sacramentoliteracy.org. Our info email is info@sacramentoliteracy.org. 

Jeff Holden: Okay, and the website is sacramentoliteracy.org. 

April Javist: That's right. And- Go check it out. You know, you'll see what we're up to. It's nothing different than we've talked about. 

Jeff Holden: Right. And everything'll be there in the show notes, so don't feel you have to pull over now if you're driving or whatever, so.

April Javist: I'm gonna put this on our website. 

Jeff Holden: Perfect. 

April Javist: This'll be on our media page. 

Jeff Holden: And I did see that you had several other interviews that you had posted up there as well, which, it- Yeah ... they're just great to see that you're getting out and you're able to tell the story, and the people- Yeah ... can listen to it. 

April Javist: Yeah.

We, we've been lucky. We've, we've really been lucky with folks like yourself who have just called us and said, "Hey, let's talk to you." And so that's... We don't have the infrastructure to, to do a [00:48:00] big media- Right ... outreach, to have a marketing team. So it's really nice when things like this happen. 

Jeff Holden: A- and a compliment too, because I think it was two years ago, Fast Pitch, SVP's Fast Pitch, you were- Right, Messiah 

April Javist: Molares won the- 

Jeff Holden: You, you won

first 

April Javist: prize. And he was- Foundation won ... 

Jeff Holden: absolutely awesome- 

April Javist: He was. 

Jeff Holden: He's a- ... in his presentation ... he's a 

April Javist: lovely young man. 

Jeff Holden: I was a judge that year. 

April Javist: Yeah. You want me to tell you a great story about- Yes, I do ... about him? So he's becoming a doctor, and he was driving an ambulance as a job to learn, you know, to get into that world.

Uh-huh. 

And he h- was on a call where a woman was bleeding from her right side. She'd been beaten up by her domestic partner, and she had two kids. And he was told, "Get the kids into the ambulance and calm everybody down." And so as he walks over, he, he recognizes the kid. The kid kind of recognizes him, but importantly, the kid says, "You're the book guy."

Messiah had given him a bag of books eight months earlier. Eight months earlier. And it stuck. Stuck. And he said, "You're the book guy." And then the sister says, "I read those books too." [00:49:00] And so for the next hour, they talked about reading, and they read everything inside the ambulance, and that was the focus.

Not, not the trauma they were going through. So it just shows you that these books, they might seem simple, but they are a step out. 

Jeff Holden: Look what it's given those kids- That's right ... the ability to separate. 

April Javist: Right. It's a hand- And, and- ... 

Jeff Holden: up. And how serendipitous- Right ... that those two would connect that way. 

April Javist: Right?

No, they do, though. Yeah. It is, it is literally like that. 

Jeff Holden: Yep. 

April Javist: So I think that's a great story about Messiah. 

Jeff Holden: I do too. And the program. 

April Javist: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: The depth. Yeah. Look at, it, it transferred not only from the brother- Yeah ... but to the sister- To the sister ... a little peer pressure- That's right ... or whatever it may have been.

April Javist: She wanted, she wanted to show she was- Yeah, right ... smarter. 

Jeff Holden: And she was just as proud to share. Yeah, yeah. I, those are the stories I love. And you see that- E- ... so many times with kids. 

April Javist: Eight months. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

April Javist: You'd think a kid would forget. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

April Javist: Nope. 

Jeff Holden: Well, I think- With, with Mom bleeding in an ambulance. Right, 

April Javist: right.

But nope. So I think this is important. I think there's something about that story that gets right to the, the value of handing our poorest kids [00:50:00] something of value- And saying you're worth it 

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. In multiple ways. Yeah. Yeah, the tangibility- In multiple ways, yeah ... of that book, it, you know, it's, it's, it's something 

April Javist: That makes me emotional- Yeah

that part. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. Yeah, that, that's a s- that's a wonderful story. Yeah. Well, April, most of us know the way out of generational poverty is the path to success with reading and education. And if you can't read, you can't learn. You can't get educated. As you've demonstrated- Yes ... you know, it's, uh, fourth grade is where it starts.

April Javist: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Your passion is so, so evident. 

April Javist: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: And n- now knowing that it's a revolution for you, which I love. 

April Javist: For you too. I, it, it is. It's a revolution for you too, Jeff. It's- And for you too. ... it 

Jeff Holden: is supporting schools, our children- Yeah ... and, and getting them to grade-level reading with culturally appropriate material.

It, it's just so incredibly apparent. Yeah. And the organization speaks for itself by what you're doing. Thank you. You know, I applaud you and the team, even though that's a little, that's a little team doing an awful lot of work. 

April Javist: I feel that way. And, 

Jeff Holden: uh, you know, the, your efforts to support and engage our children in our community for the [00:51:00] greater good.

Mm-hmm. So thank you for what you guys do, and thank you for your time today. I appreciate it. 

April Javist: Thank you, Jeff. 

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