What Nonprofits Can Learn From a Community Owned Social Enterprise.

Brian Munn: [00:00:00] I hear a lot, like reason why I'm a member and is really because I like the produce, the quality, the freshness, and that's why I shop there. For me, it's a lot more than just shopping. It's, it's where am I putting my dollars? I've always felt that way. There's not a lot of dollars to go around, so where for me, what I like to do is put my dollars into the community where I know, one, I'm not being taken advantage of.

I know I'm getting a high quality product, and if something's wrong, they're gonna fix it

Jeff Holden: Welcome to the Nonprofit Podcast Network. Our purpose and passion are simple: to highlight the incredible nonprofits that make our communities stronger. Each episode is a chance for these organizations to tell their story in their words, sharing not just what they do, but why it matters to the people they [00:01:00] serve, to their supporters, and to all of us who believe in the power of community.

Through podcasting, we hope to amplify their voices, inspire connection, and give them one more tool to impact the hearts of donors, partners, and neighbors alike. This work is made possible through the generous support of our incredible partners, CapTrust, offering fiduciary advice for endowments and foundations, Western Health Advantage, a local not-for-profit health plan that believes healthcare is more than coverage, it's about caring, Core, executive leadership and comprehensive support services.

They work in it so you can work on it, and Five Star Bank, a local trusted advisor to community nonprofits for over 25 years. What if the people who shopped at your neighborhood grocery store also had a say in how it was run? Well, that's how the Sacramento [00:02:00] Natural Food Co-op works. It started as a buying club more than 50 years ago, and today it's a community-owned business where every member owner gets one vote and local food makers have a place to get their products on the shelf.

In this episode, I sit down with co-op President Brian Munn to talk about what it takes to keep a business rooted in its community for more than five decades. We get into what membership actually means and how a partnership with Alchemist CDC even helps local entrepreneurs reach shoppers. And there's a question I keep coming back to for our nonprofits.

What can a neighborhood grocery store teach us about earning revenue in a way that also serves their missions? Brian Munn, welcome to the Nonprofit Podcast Network. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. Thank you. Thanks. Glad to be here. 

Jeff Holden: We're going to talk about something that is a, a Sacramento staple that so many people know because the organization has been around for a long time, [00:03:00] but we probably should clarify, you know, right up front, we have a misperception that we think it's a nonprofit, and in fact, it's really just one of the early vestiges of what would be considered a social enterprise, and I'm talking about the Sacramento Natural Foods Co-op.

So- 

Brian Munn: Yeah. ... 

Jeff Holden: give us a little history. Tell us a little bit about the organization. 

Brian Munn: Well, I mean, the organization's been there five decades longer than I have. You know, the co-op's been, as a lot of people say it, you know, a staple in the community, you know, a pillar in the community of Sacramento for a long time.

It's been there for 53 years now, going on its 53rd birthday just a couple weeks ago. And, you know, started as a buying club in '71, incorporated in '73, you know, and, and the reason for it was to bring quality products that weren't necessarily available to the community, and it's just slowly grown over time.

It's had three different locations. Where we're at now, [00:04:00] this is, uh, our 10th year party as we're recording this, is our 10th- And 

Jeff Holden: congratulations, 'cause that's pretty cool. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: 53 years, 1973 to today, and then 10 years at the, what we'll consider the new location. 

Brian Munn: The, the... Yeah, the R Street location, as we call it, Midtown.

Yeah, 10 years at this location and which is kind of crazy to think about because, you know, I, I remember visiting when it first opened 'cause I'm a natural foods nerd, right? So, you know, a new cool natural food store opens, and I gotta go check it out, so I checked it out, and I remember thinking way back then, you know, 10 years ago, like, "Oh, this is a cool store.

I wouldn't mind working here, you know, one day." And sure enough, you know, five years later, I found myself there. But yeah, anyways, um, very cool. 

Jeff Holden: You have, uh, uh, a model which is not unusual for co-ops of sorts. Uh, you know, we, we don't recognize, but REI is a co-op- Mm-hmm ... and everybody sees that as, as, you know, maybe a pillar of, you know, that type of, uh, of [00:05:00] enterprise, business enterprise.

Uh, and while you are a, a for-profit business, there's really no profit taken out. It's put back in. Can you explain that a little bit? 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I mean, I call it the greatest economic model for America, right? I think for the country, certainly for, you know, the state of California and where we're at and, and the times we're in.

It's not a nonprofit. It's a for-profit incorporated business, but it's community-owned. It's, it's a model that takes what, you know, a nonprofit does, but what we do is basically run a really well business to be able to take whatever, you know, whatever fruits of that labor that's happening and really circulate that back into our local economy.

So the way the co-op works is it's membership-based, and membership means ownership. Everybody gets a share when they, when they buy in. Everybody's treated the same. You- we all get one vote, you know, including myself. [00:06:00] I have just as much say by voting on who goes onto our board. I, myself, as the president, report to the board.

We have nine board members. Three seats come up every year, and anyone on the membership can apply to be in. They go through a nominations committee evaluation, and then they get put on the ballot, and we vote every year Yeah. So I guess, you know, by way of, of the difference, I think if we're just talking nonprofit to for-profit, um, the difference with us being a for-profit, if we're really driven by, you know, the community needs- Mm-hmm

right? And if our board is leading, you know, this entity, you know, our mission, our values, and what we've done and our commitment, uh, hasn't changed over the last 50 years, right? And that's what's so great about the co-op. 

Jeff Holden: Well, the interesting thing too is what you just described is very similar to a nonprofit board, and it looks like you have term limits on your board so that- Mm-hmm

they sequentially will term off every three, you had nine people, so a third-year board is changing [00:07:00] every, what is it, two, three, four, five years in terms of whatever that tenure is. 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm. Yeah, they get three terms, so- 

Jeff Holden: Okay ... 

Brian Munn: yeah, they can sit, technically rerun for- Nine years ... nine full years, and then they have to sit out for a couple years.

Jeff Holden: Okay. 

Brian Munn: And then they can rerun again, and we've had people- Sure ... on and off our board for a very long time. 

Jeff Holden: And, and sometimes it's a great thing. Sometimes- Yeah ... you know, may- maybe not so great, but nonetheless, they're elected. 

Brian Munn: Exactly. 

Jeff Holden: You know, and it's elected by the membership. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: There are, are certainly some ways of modeling with what you do that not only mirror, but could be opportunistic for nonprofits who are hearing this going, "Boy, you know, we, we have similar operating platforms.

We do similar things in the community." And talk a little bit about what that membership activity looks like, because really that's the purpose of any excess cash that comes in. It goes back into the membership, not to the operating entity. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. I mean, you know, there's a lot [00:08:00] there, and there's a ton, ton that we could, you know, go through.

But I think, you know, at the end of the day, a lot of, a lot of what we aspire to do is we really have to check ourself all the time, right? Like a nonprofit. The difference, though, is that we have these c- we have these ends policies really that, that keeps us kind of in these guardrails, right? And, um, we follow these ends policies and, and, and, and it can be, you know, interpreted differently based off of the current CEO, because that's how it works is it's an interpretation of those ends.

Mm-hmm. Of course, the board manages that to make sure it makes sense, right? Through policy governance like what we have. But, but I would say what we, what we, what we try to do is One, at our core, we're there to bring in what a natural foods does, right? And what we do is we bring in quality [00:09:00] foods. We bring in, you know, makers that are in Sacramento area.

We give them a platform to utilize in our store. And I think, like, one nonprofit that we work with is, they're called Alchemist. I don't know if you've heard of Alchemist. Yeah. Know them very 

Jeff Holden: well. We've had, have them on the- I'm sure ... on the, on the program. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: And love what they do. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. It's a amazing program, right?

They take... Even one of our employees went through the Alchemist program and was able to sell product because of them, right? Mm-hmm. So when, when people go through that program, we work closely with them to find out who's creating product that we can sell on our shelves. We have certain guidelines, right?

There's, it has to be clean ingredients and these types of things, right? 'Cause that's what, you know, we're all about. That's why we were created. But when these things, when they, when they create those, we give them a platform to sell that product. That's what we are. We're that hub to showcase what we have to the community, right?

It's, it's really hard to create a product and then find, you know, someone to buy that product, right? Right. [00:10:00] Like, that's the hardest part. Well, 

Jeff Holden: and, and you may, you know, in, in its purest sense, have been the origin of this, this farm-to-fork, farm-to-kitchen- Mm-hmm ... at least, because you are taking everything from the local community and the best of those food products that you could find that maybe we didn't have access to here, giving that vendor the opportunity to put it on the shelf- 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm

Jeff Holden: and then redistribute it back into the community. I mean, it's about as fresh as it got, and I think that's what a lot of- Mm-hmm ... people appreciated- 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm ... about the- I, I agree. I've done some surveys and conversations with, you know, membership, member owners, and I hear a lot, like, reason why I'm a member and is really because I like the produce, the quality, the freshness, and that's why I shop there, you know?

And everyone has a different reason, you know? For me, it's a lot more than just shopping. It's, it's where am I putting my dollars? I've always felt that way. There's not a lot of dollars to go around. So where for me, what I like to do is put my [00:11:00] dollars into the community where I know, one, I'm not being taken advantage of, I know I'm getting a high-quality product, and if something's wrong, they're gonna fix it.

You know what I mean? And I don't have to worry, right? That's what the co-op's there for. It's like you can come in and you don't really have to worry. You're gonna, you're gonna find the best products that are available, and we do a lot to make sure that the products that are coming in and the vendors that are selling are true to that word, you know?

We do a lot of effort and work to make sure that's the case, and that's, you know, it's in a way kind of been our greatest success and also an Achilles heel, right? It keeps-- makes it hard to grow fast where others have, and- 

Darrell Teat: Mm-hmm ... 

Brian Munn: unfortunately, you know, we are the second-largest single store co-op in America.

But for me, we're still really far behind in terms of natural foods, and we could be doing so much more, and we wanna do so much more. So that's, that's really been a big focus in the last couple years is, is that. 

Jeff Holden: And, and I wanna continue the... Boy, I, I'm-- [00:12:00] It's-- There's so much I wanna get into. Yeah. And I'm, I'm keeping somewhat linear.

You mentioned a couple of things. The, the people you serve, how big is the swath, let's say, of, of people that are a part of the co-op? And do I have to be a member to shop there? 

Brian Munn: Yeah, it's a good, good question. You know, oddly enough, we don't, we don't have a ton of data, right, on our shoppers. We do have some data on where our membership are, right?

Mm-hmm. Because they sign up and we send them stuff to their address, things like that. We try and reach out and do surveys from time to time to keep that data flowing. Um, but we do know is we're actually more heavily community-driven in terms of shopping, so we have roughly 70% of our transactions are non-members, 30% are members.

Jeff Holden: Wow. 

Brian Munn: Now, members tend to shop more, so dollar for dollar it's higher with membership. Mm-hmm. But it's still weighted towards community, and that's why we do say that a lot. We're, you know, there for the community, and I think that's why we're founded. [00:13:00] We don't-- You don't have to be a member to shop there, and that's awesome.

We would love it if you did because then, you know, that's just more commitment, that's just more want and drive, right? More, uh, people, diversity out there of, of ideas, more people for the board, all those things, right? Membership's super important to- Yeah, 

Jeff Holden: that 

Brian Munn: engagement ... to broaden that. And so we try and do our best to get people into that, but, but yeah, heavily not, not members who shop there, which is amazing.

And we have to serve all parties, right? Sure. We've got all these different things to, to think about. We have our ends, which are broad, right? There's a lot of different things that we're trying to scratch the itch of, right? But yeah, we, we-- I guess just, just back to your point of the, you know, membership and do you have to be a member to shop there, no, you don't, but we'd love it if you did.

Jeff Holden: Sure. Is the, does the geography tend to be proximal, meaning it's, it's, it's a 10-mile radius? Mm-hmm. Which I would imagine, yes, in its density, but- Mm-hmm ... you have people from- 

Brian Munn: Yeah ... 

Jeff Holden: m- what are the [00:14:00] fringes? 

Brian Munn: Yeah. So fairly recently, we had a by, bylaw update. Bylaws are just basically what govern us, right? And in that, it used to be that I think you could be anywhere in America, something like that.

But anyways, it's more confined to California. But you don't have to live in the area to be a member. We don't have really strict geological ranges for that. Mm-hmm. So we do have people kind of from different zip codes that, you know, membership. But the majority is, you know, the zip codes are Sacramento, right?

Jeff Holden: Tight, yeah. 

Brian Munn: Heavy, heavy population. We-- Our largest population outside of the Sacramento city Our biggest population outside the Sacramento, like city limits or, or, um, even the county, but in, in this case, our biggest outside of the city is Elk Grove. But it's, it's really only like 3%. Okay. So we do have people kinda all over.

What we've noticed, I don't know if everyone has known this, but back in 2006, we tried to open another location in Elk Grove. [00:15:00] It didn't quite work out. I think the thought process there was is, oh, our largest outside of Sacramento membership is in Elk Grove. Great. Let's, let's do that. Timing was bad, whatever.

We won't go into it. 

Jeff Holden: Uh-huh. 

Brian Munn: But I think a lot of those people, they, they live in, or they live in Elk Grove, but they sho- they work- Work 

Jeff Holden: downtown ... 

Brian Munn: in Sacramento, and then they shop the co-op and go home, so yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, that makes sense. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: And I would imagine just density of, of that community- Mm-hmm ... and proximity, you know, state capital and even the Sac State, whatever.

Yeah. It's, it's convenient to stop there and then head back if that's your thing, if you really are into, to- Yeah ... you know, natural foods and stuff like that. Absolutely. You're really the only outlet there that can service that. 

Brian Munn: We were , you know? I think that's why, what made Sacramento Natural Foods Co-ops so successful is that there wasn't that many options, you know, in Elk Grove.

Even now there really isn't. You know, where- Yeah ... where we're sitting here today, I told you earlier when I first [00:16:00] moved here, I lived not too far from here. First thing I did was try and find where am I gonna get my food locally when I'm not at work. Luckily I, you know, I already commute to work. I can buy from there, but there's a lot of times I'm not at work and I need to get stuff.

Where am I gonna go, you know? And there's, there's really not that many options still to this day in this area. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. So- And this area being the Citrus Heights, Fair Oaks, Orangevale 

Brian Munn: area. Yes. Correct. Correct. Yeah. The middle of the triangle as I call it. Yes. There's not that many options in the middle of this triangle, and it's, it's a, it's a big bummer and I just wish, you know, one, I wish we did more to get into these areas before some of these other companies got in here.

But, you know, we'll talk about that later. 

Jeff Holden: It's only so much you can do, right? You, you mentioned Alchemist, and let's talk about what the collaborative efforts look like. You know, some of the organizations that you do work with. Certainly there are other nonprofits that come- Mm-hmm ... in and out. Mm. And you are very embedded in that community.

And I- Mm-hmm ... I can think of some 'cause our, our [00:17:00] previous conversation, but I'll let you a- address them. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. So yeah, I mentioned Alchemist. It's one, we, we partner with them all the time. If we have a member meetup or something, we have them come out and they speak, you know, to our membership. Really great about doing that.

You know, education is so tough. There's, everybody has such busy lives, you know- 

Jeff Holden: Yeah ... 

Brian Munn: including myself. It's not within my world. It's, it's hard to know about, right? You really have to go find it, and who has the time to do that? So there's just a ton of education that's needed on what a co-op is. We're not a nonprofit, but what does that mean?

You know, we're still here for the community. It's, it's so much better than the alternative, right? But another one, like so for example, I think our closest tie our closest, you know, nonprofit. We work with River City Food Bank, and that's... They're behind us. Mm-hmm. They're across the street. 

Jeff Holden: Literally.

Literally. 

Brian Munn: Which is great, I think, for them and us in different ways. So one example is every morning we cull. That just means we go through all of our produce and [00:18:00] make sure everything's fresh, right? We wanna sell the freshest we can. We take the stuff that's not super fresh, and we give it to employees.

We put it out on a rack, right? And we let employees take it. But the best part is, is we divert all of that waste. Like, almost none of it ends up in the, in the landfill like, like what will happen at Whole Foods and Trader Joe's and all these other places where all this food lands in that landfill. For us, it doesn't because we have that partnership with River City Food Bank.

They come by in the mornings. They pick up a bunch of fresh produce, you know, other things if there's other things, but mainly it's fresh produce, and then they take that back over there so that they can, you know, set up their marketplace. Mm-hmm. And they're able to serve that, the community. So it's, it's just another extension of us trying to continue to help serve the community and bring, you know- Bring doing, again, good business, allowing us to make some profit, allowing us to be able to do these things, right?

And so yeah, one of the, one of the coolest things that I see is, is [00:19:00] that extension into the community. So if there's people that are, you know, down on their luck, so to speak, and that's what River City Food Bank is there for, you know? You're going through some tough times, you have that option. Anyone can walk into River City.

They don't question, and they've set it up really well where it's kinda like a little marketplace. 

Darrell Teat: Mm-hmm. 

Brian Munn: And they have a lot of Sac Co-op food over there, right? And that's Sac Co-op food means local produce from, you know, Capay Valley and things like that. So everybody's getting their nutrients, you know, in that little block, right?

Jeff Holden: Who are some of the other, uh, y- you've got Alchemist and obviously right across the street in, in an actively engaged space, you know, River City Food Bank, who also has been a guest on the program. 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: Uh, maybe others that might come into the store not unlike an Alchemist. Are there other organizations that you've seen that whatever it may be that they're, they're coming in that are, are in the nonprofit space?

Brian Munn: In different ways. You know, we work with nonprofits a lot, banking and, and stuff like that. I [00:20:00] did a podcast with SAFE, you know, who's a co-op. I don't know if they're nonprofit, but they are a co-op. And other things like that, you know, again, with like CORE, working with Impact Foundry with Kim who- Mm-hmm

who helped us do our strategic plan a f- a couple years ago, and we've continued to work, you know- That'd be 

Jeff Holden: Kim Tucker from what was the Impact Foundry. 

Brian Munn: Yeah, now 

Jeff Holden: it's- Now it's Nonprofit Action Network. 

Brian Munn: There we go. 

Jeff Holden: Took me a minute. Sorry about that. 

Brian Munn: Sorry, Kim. We work in various ways. I mean, you know, throughout our, on our shelves, it's mainly not, right?

That's not necessarily what nonprofits do. They're there to kinda help serve as we are kind of more of a hub- Mm-hmm ... system, I would say. And so, so in those various ways, we do our best to kind of help where we can, whether it be round up at the registers or the micro-grant funding loans to farms, but also to co-ops if needed.

Things like that is the way we kind of interact with- Yeah ... with the [00:21:00] nonprofit world. 

Jeff Holden: Let's talk about the, the funding, you know, the way the organization is funded. Obviously, there is some margin in there to keep things going that's, that's necessary But you also have the membership, which certainly can't be the, you know, the panacea to any shortcomings.

It's, you know, X number of people. What does it look like? How, how does the business operate? Because you have these, these, you know, variable elements that contribute to the, you know, operational pool of income. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. And you're talking just kind of like fundraising 

Jeff Holden: to 

Brian Munn: a 

Jeff Holden: degree? Or- Well, both, 'cause you, you do both.

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: You, you have... Grocery is a challenging industry. 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: You know, the margins we all know are so, so tiny. 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: And where the margin is, is on the garbage food. You know? Mm-hmm. It's not on the stuff that is, you know, the fresh- Exactly. Yeah ... changing constantly, you know, farm to fork stuff. So w- what does that look like?

What does the business model look like? 

Brian Munn: Yeah. Well, [00:22:00] I mean, it's like you said, grocery industry in general is really tough. I mean, I worked in independent natural foods grocery as well before this, and it doesn't matter, you know, what grocery industry you're in, your s- profits are very slim, right? Mm-hmm.

You know, when prices go up, for the most part, that's inflation. That's not, you know... That's 'cause prices goes up. Yeah, it's not margins for the store, right. That's 'cause gas goes up. It's not, it's not like we're, oh, we need- we're rai- raising prices 'cause we, 'cause we can. We want to, you know? Right. It's, uh, has nothing to do with that.

For a co-op, I would say that the... To take it a step further is we can kind of relax on some things. So I guess if we're talking business, you know, dollar comes in, a h- half of a penny stays in our bank, right? Mm-hmm. Out of everything said and done, we paid all our bills, our staff, all of that off a dollar coming in, half a [00:23:00] penny if we're doing everything right.

Right. Which most of the time we're trying to, but a lot of times it's not the case, right? There's a lot of other factors that happen, um, especially over the last few years with inflation and things being a little 

Jeff Holden: crazy. Well, and fuel prices. Everything has to get from point A to point B, and we don't know what it's gonna be day to day.

Brian Munn: Exactly. And yeah, that has increased things, too, for sure. But, but that, that's just the business as a simple form, right? We don't make a big net income by, by any means. But beyond that, what we can do is we're... Or at least what I, my take on it is, is we're here for longevity, right? We want to Utilize what we can do and the very slim profits that we know we can do by running a great business, and be able to give that back to the community, right?

So what I mean by that is, like, if, you know, let's take eggs for example. I use this all the time, but I mean, it happens all the time now. [00:24:00] But let's take eggs, for example. When the egg prices go crazy because, you know, inflation or there's a shortage or whatever, a lot of places are gonna ramp those prices up because they're getting charged more, right?

From the manufacturer, from the farm, whatever. We can g- we can take a step back and take a moment to say, "Hey, we know this is short-lived. Let's just take the hit on eggs. You know? Like, it's, it's gonna be fine." And so we collectively make that plan to say, "Hey, we're not gonna raise the price right now.

We're not gonna remake up that margin. We're gonna just eat it. We're gonna let it run." And this has happened with different things within our store. When the SNAP benefits went away, you know, we have a community discount program. You know, I wish it could be 100% off, right? Right. But we increased it, and that just hits our bottom line.

That's just any little dollar that we've been able to make that we were gonna put back into the store, we were gonna invest back into the store, we were gonna give to the community, or we're gonna put in the bank so we're a little more secure, [00:25:00] that money is gone, and we've given that to those folks. We can make those decisions in real time, and that's, again, what sets us apart from an independent.

They're going, "I need to make my profit. I have shelder- shareholders." Mm-hmm. We have shareholders, quote unquote, right? It's a little different. They have shareholders that have to prove something with, you know, with the books. And we get to say, you know, we can take a, we can take a step back for a moment and think about what this is gonna do to the community and think about all the hardships that are going on right now.

We get to make those quick decisions and say, "We're gonna do really good business for the rest of the year to make up for this so we, so we do make a little bit of money for the membership, too." Mm-hmm. You know, 'cause we still wanna do that, too. 

Jeff Holden: But I, I love the fact that you're able to pivot in a favorable way to the benefit of the community, especially when you mentioned the SNAP program- Mm-hmm

'cause that was a, a disaster. 

James Beckwith: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: And catastrophic for some people. 

James Beckwith: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: If they had the security of knowing Oh, wow. The, the co-op hasn't done any... [00:26:00] I, heck, I gotta, I gotta make sure I go there. 

James Beckwith: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: I mean, you'll certainly get it in goodwill back, and it is testament to, you know, the mission and the values of the organization to say, "No, we're gonna support the community."

Uh, you know, wi- within reason, obviously. You can't go too far and- Yeah ... and, and too deep on it, but that's a decision that the membership makes. Yeah. 

Brian Munn: And I think, again, that's what makes the co-op model so great, in my opinion, is we're still in a competitive environment- Mm-hmm ... because we're a for-profit, so we're competing with these others, but we can do things that are really non-profit style, right?

But we have to run a good business, too. You know, there's these, these trade-offs. Yeah. So it makes it, it really is, makes it dynamic and, you know, it's a really tough business to run. At the end of the day, it's very rewarding in that way, too, you know? 

Jeff Holden: And, and you mentioned something. It, it, it is a business.

We are today a- and have been for some time recognizing that, you know, just 'cause it says non-profit doesn't mean it's not a business. 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: You know, they still- Mm-hmm, yeah ... they, [00:27:00] we all have to look at it from a perspective of these are all businesses. The only difference is that tax status, and it's gotta be competitive, too, because if it's- Mm-hmm

in a space where it's got competition that's for profit, then y- you have that competitive situation where somebody's gonna win. 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm, 

Jeff Holden: yeah. And, and it gets back into, you know, business operation and how are you running it as a business. Let's look at it. What if, if you had the ability, you, you had a, a, a membership or somebody who is involved on the, uh, you know, on the board who says, "Hey, hey, Brian, we're gonna give you a blank check."

What would, what would it look like? What would change at the co-op if you had just this, this- 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm ... you 

Jeff Holden: know, influx of, of opportunity? 

Brian Munn: Yeah. Well, probably wouldn't come from single board member. That'd be a little weird, but 

Jeff Holden: Right, right. 

Brian Munn: But, uh, let's, let's take that... That, that's the difference too, that we, you know, [00:28:00] I have sometimes we do have discussion with the board to say, "You know, there's things that we can't get funding for because we are for-profit."

There's, there's these different- Yeah ... you know? 

Jeff Holden: Um- Yeah, you can't go to the, the foundations and things of that nature 'cause you are for-profit. 

Brian Munn: Exactly, and that's okay. You know, that's why we run a great business, and we can make our profit to do that stuff. But yeah, to your point, I mean, we've, we've touched on this.

We've actually had conversation, others and with other co-ops and how can we get together, what can we do, 'cause we... Funding is everything to, to expand and grow, and it's our biggest Achilles' heels, you know, between all the co-ops. We don't sit on much cash at all, any of us, right? Because partly when we make any of it, we give it right back, you know?

Darrell Teat: Mm-hmm. 

Brian Munn: Anyways, yeah, if we got an influx of, of funding, my biggest thing would be to do and continue to do what we do best, and that's bring amazing products, an amazing story, a better economic model to every community that I could. We can, we can [00:29:00] further our educational outreach, be able to reach more people to say, "Hey, guess what?

Apples to apples for, for these products, for stuff that is much better for you, in my opinion," and I don't wanna get into that debate, but in my opinion, the eating this way is so much better for you in so many ways. If we could get that educational voice out to people to let them know what a co-op is and why it's so impactful, especially if you're involved in it, but even if you're not, just to shop there where that money goes every time you spend that dollar, like I said.

You know, our staff, we pay them as best we can. We're competitive, but we're one store competing against an Amazon- Right ... that has endless money, endless. They could be paying their staff so much more, you know? In a way, thankfully they don't because we'd be run out of business. Yeah. Right. You know? Because we, we can barely keep up.

You know what I mean? But we have... And, and the reason for that is we have more people on the floor. You know, we... [00:30:00] Running from an independent and looking at the do- the percentage of store sales and what I spent on labor there to what I spent on labor here, vastly different. You know? Probably 20, I'd say 20, 25% more on operational staff labor on the floor, you know, than I did, you know, at this as independent, right?

So yeah, I'm kinda getting lost all over the place here, getting passionate about these things. But I think if we got an influx of money, I would say the f- one of the biggest things would be education and getting that word out about co-ops, but about, you know, food in general, right? And then that second big part would be then to take it further and take it and actually be competitive and go open new stores or acquire independents that are doing a great job that should stay there, right?

Because we want that business that those people like to stay in that area. And we have grocery stores around Sacramento that I've already thought about in years [00:31:00] to come. They've been here a long time. Are they gonna wanna sell, or are they gonna wanna close? Because either way, the co-op should own it.

And not just that co-op. It could be any co-op. It could be a new co-op. 

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. But you got the influx of money, so it's you. 

Brian Munn: So it's us. Yeah, okay. That's right. Yeah, I gotta remember that. We have this money. So that would be what... And then we could offer a good price. We don't have to mess around with them.

You know, we can be real and say, "We're doing this to keep the entity there for the community," right? It's beneficial to us because economies of scale. 

Jeff Holden: Right. 

Brian Munn: You know, our admin costs go down 'cause we're spreading them out over these stores, but we keep all the staff. We run it the way it's been running. We have no intention to change it, only to make it better and give it a little more money because we run a great business.

And where do our profits go? 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

Brian Munn: Not into retirement, not into my pocket, right? Not into the board's. They go right back into the membership, but also the staff and that store itself, you know? So the building owner that owns it is gonna love that. Things [00:32:00] like that. Mm-hmm. So, you know, ideally, we would have little hubs of these co-ops all throughout, you know, this area and beyond.

But definitely, if I'm just thinking Sacramento, like, there could be 10 to 12 of us easily throughout- Mm-hmm ... all these areas. There's so many areas that could use it. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, and just roll it up, uh, as we were talking, right here in, in our- 

Brian Munn: Exactly ... 

Jeff Holden: geographic 

Brian Munn: area in, in the triangle. Probably three in this area, to be honest.

Yeah. You know, they don't have to be that big. They just have to carry the right mix and good food and quality produce, you know? 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: We'll be back with more from Brian Munn of the Sacramento Natural Foods Co-op right after we hear some tasty morsels from those who make this program possible 

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Jeff Holden: So we, we come off of the, uh, the, the vision of what could be into today. You know, what is the, the greatest need that you see in sustainability? And, and to be fair, uh, people may be thinking, I don't think they recognize the, the girth of what you do have.

It's a 50-plus million dollar operation. Mm-hmm. This is a single store, second-most successful in the country. Mm-hmm. That's a big deal. But it comes with all the [00:36:00] penalties, so to speak- ... of California too. You know, it's hard to operate in California. Absolutely. So you have all these liabilities, but you do have some scale.

And, you know, we were talking a little bit about this in our, our earlier call. How does that work? What, what would be the, you know, that greatest need to sustainability and growth? 

Brian Munn: The greatest need to sustainability and growth? I mean, you kinda touched on it in your last question. Funding is the first thing.

Jeff Holden: Yep. Yeah, yeah. 

Brian Munn: I mean, there's a need for action. There's a need for us as co-ops in general to get together and help educate folks about food and the food system. There is a lot of gas line lighting, gaslighting- 

Darrell Teat: Mm-hmm ... 

Brian Munn: a lot of greenwashing that has been going on for a long time in natural foods. And if you walk into any place...

I mean, I had to go get a prescription the other day, and I went into CVS, and they're carrying some of the stuff that we carry now. Natural foods [00:37:00] lines have been purchased and bought, and, you know, we go through this with us. It's like, man, if Pepsi now owns Siete, do we carry them still? Like, people want them, the community wants them, so we kinda gotta juggle that, you know?

I would like not to. 

Darrell Teat: Mm-hmm. 

Brian Munn: But if we didn't, they're gonna go somewhere else now to get it, and now they're in CVS, Target, Walmart, you name it, right? It's really competitive and really hard, so education is just paramount. And, and it, for me, it comes down to the economic model of what makes sense for your community.

You know, if you're in the nonprofit sector, this should speak directly to you, right? This is everything you live for, and I think most people, at least for me, most people, right? And that's what natural foods, way back in the day when I started 20 egos, 20 years ago, stood for. A lot of that pillar was standing on that we need to help educate and lift our community up and teach on, 'cause there's so much bad product out there that people are consuming, and [00:38:00] we need to teach on what's, you know, better for your health and better for the environment, better for the community.

And I would say 90% have lost that. Co-ops have stayed true to that because it's a part of our mission values. Mm-hmm. And again, our shareholders is that, so there's nothing that needs to change, and we won't ever change it for the most part, you know? Maybe some communities in certain areas might wanna change some of their stuff, but for the most part, most co-ops live off that, that mission, that value.

So the biggest hurdle is funding education and getting really aggressive, and I have a lot of, you know, folks in my, you know, a lot of peers, let's say, that maybe don't live by that same thought. And I'm very highly aggressive when it comes to these things 'cause I'm very passionate about it, and That's where I shop and spend my time, you know?

And that's just where I'm gonna live, in that space. 

Jeff Holden: You know? And likely, the more people know, the [00:39:00] majority will make a decision for the better. 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: You know, the better quality food. E- especially so much information's coming out about all these health issues. It's what we put in our mouth. 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: It's, it's not medical treatment, it's not exercise, it's what starts with the intake.

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: And so many of our ailments could be at least minimized- 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm ... 

Jeff Holden: with, you know, better knowledge of food. And it's, it, it is a challenge. I mean, we've- Yeah ... we've had, you know, people on. There's an organization called The Food Literacy Center, you know, sa- same situ- situation of this is really important.

Brian Munn: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: You know, and people have to understand, and where do we start? You know, and how do we communicate that to the, you know, the m- more, the, the food desert areas, you know, where the people are really challenged with this? 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: And it's really not even about the money or the cost of the food. It's just the knowledge and understanding and accessibility.

Brian Munn: Yeah, accessibility definitely, and not, not having, you know, access in that [00:40:00] community, and not having the education, like you said, in that community. And it takes individuals to change and want to have this, because you can't just go into, you know, an area that doesn't have this type of food access, let's say, and put one in there and expect that they want that.

Jeff Holden: Right. 

Brian Munn: You know? So there's that piece of it, too, is, you know, for the most part, we can do this in incremental ways and we can educate. There's school systems need to know it, and I think there's been a big push on that, but it could go further. Sure. It could go so much further. I know that there's things in, you know, that are, that are potentially coming into the capital about more funding for better food and schools and better, you know, funding for, you know, places like us.

I think that's super important, and that's gonna be helpful because, again, we need that competitive edge to kinda get, get moving here. You know? Mm-hmm. We're pretty stuck and- There's a lot of places that have just grown so big, and they're, they're already making big [00:41:00] moves, you know? And yeah, I don't, I don't know.

I don't have all the answers for that, but I know what we do. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. A- and, and not to be expected is, and that, that's the purpose of what we're doing here is sharing this information so people can say, "Hey, how can we, how can we help here?" Mm-hmm. We need, we need to do more. Yeah, one thing I wanna touch on because it is in the realm of, of funding and budgeting is, you know, most people don't know that you do have these micro-grants that go back- Mm-hmm

out into the community for a variety of different things, most of them falling into a nonprofit space. And I, I think you said, uh, you know, ring up at the register, which is, is one of the ways, but your shoppers have contributed over $600,000 back into the community. This is above and beyond what the, you know, the co-op is doing.

Brian Munn: Correct. 

Jeff Holden: And that's coming from these, these micro-grants to benefit whomever. What does that look like? How do people learn about that opportunity? 

Brian Munn: Yeah. Well, I mean, what you're speaking about, round up at the register, yeah, that's a little program we implemented a while ago, and it's contributed over half a million dollars in [00:42:00] funding that the community has done.

Darrell Teat: Mm-hmm. 

Brian Munn: We just ask simply if you'd like to round up your change, and a lot of people do. Sometimes you don't. You don't have to. Right. I know it's one of those things, you know, you're being asked to put a little more in. That money each month, we have a nonprofit usually or, you know, some advocacy group, um, in the local area, maybe school systems, things like that- 

Darrell Teat: Mm-hmm

Brian Munn: around what we do. It's around food. It's around access, things like that. And the membership gets to vote on that, right? We, we put it out to them to see which... Here's a grouping of the people that applied. We only have-- We gotta do it for a month, so we only have 12 slots, right? And so they are able to help pick and choose what they wanna see, which is really great.

It just keeps that collaboration going. And then we put those up each month, and we do our best. You know, the team at the front end does a great job at asking and not being overly aggressive by any means, but we wanna also get some more money if we can [00:43:00] back into the, into these nonprofits and things like that.

So that's one form. That's the round up at the registers. When you're shopping, you'll probably hear about it if you do shop at the co-op, and probably honestly most places now do that, right? Which is great. I think it's, it's great that that happens everywhere. And then we have micro-grant loan, let's say, farmers' resilience funds that we do with the California Farm Link.

And Are they a nonprofit? Good question. I feel like they are, but don't quote me on that. But anyways, they're out of Santa Cruz. They do great for the California farm system. And we, in our area here, we, we, the co-op will either, you know, if you're a member and you vote, like this last voting period just happened- Mm-hmm

we donate, you know, a dollar for every vote type of thing, right? And then that money goes into that fund, and we do other little ways to get money into that fund. And then at the end of each year, we have, um, farms in the area that can apply to these micro-grants, and we give out, you know, anywhere from three to five [00:44:00] micro-grants.

And it's for if they need this new equipment or they need some of this or that. It's to help them kinda grow and expand a little bit on their business. And we have a couple other little very small micro-grant farms that we have, you know, membership kind of participate in and help, help decide where that, that money's gonna go.

And we've done that through, you know, money that we've put into a fund a long time ago that generates, you know, small growth, and we use that small growth to then give those micro-grants out. Mm-hmm. Things like that. 

Jeff Holden: And those are incubators, basically. Mm-hmm. I mean, you're actually helping facilitate that small farm, in many cases, to grow and, and better serve because as more and more people become aware, there's only gonna be so much product, and if we need more of it, somebody's gotta grow it.

Brian Munn: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: And we wanna keep it local, and we wanna keep it accessible. 

Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: And- 

Brian Munn: Yeah, 

Jeff Holden: and our- ... you know, and certainly seasonal. 

Brian Munn: What I say our, our biggest way we can help, it's, we'll- it will never be- we'll never be able to compete with Whole Foods and [00:45:00] Raley's and folks like that- Sure ... that have so much cash that they have to give it out to get some tax reduction, right?

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

Brian Munn: Right now we have, we won't be able to compete, but when I get your funding you're talking about- Yes ... we're gonna have plenty of stores out there to compete. But 

Jeff Holden: That's as a result of this podcast. Somebody's gonna hear that and say, "Hey, Brian- Let's 

Brian Munn: go open some stores ... here's 

Jeff Holden: that check. Let's get some stores opened up."

Brian Munn: Exactly. But our biggest way that I talk about is we sell great quality products, produce, food, meat from awesome ranchers, producers, and farmers, right? That's our biggest platform. We sell it as much as we can. I wish we could buy all from Full Belly or all from Spread Wing or all... We can do that sometimes, depending on what it is, and promote it and sell it.

But if we, you know, more locations means more from them, they can expand and grow. Again- Nonprofit, for-profit, whatever, the best system is selling the right products, right? You can't serve [00:46:00] just your community. Like, we need to help those. We need to sell those products. We need to get those into customer hands, and the more they can scale, the better the pricing can be- Mm-hmm

so on and so forth. We just continue that. Really hard, really slow getting there, but there's been some progress, I guess you could say. 

Jeff Holden: But- 53 years worth ... 

Brian Munn: 53 years and long relationships with a lot of farms that are still in business, and I think heavily, you know, we've been a big part of that. Last year alone, 47-ish% was local of our sales, so that's $23 million was all to our local economy.

Scott Thomas: Mm-hmm. 

Brian Munn: We helped generate that. That's far more impactful to me than $7,000 that we were able to round up at the register and give to a nonprofit, you know? And I think it's great, and we should do those things, but again, real impact is just being a co-op selling the right stuff. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, and that's full circle.

Brian Munn: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: I mean, that literally is a 360 right in the community. 

Brian Munn: Yep. 

Jeff Holden: It's not going out. It's not going out to some corporate who bought, [00:47:00] happened to buy a great, you know, organic product- 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm ... 

Jeff Holden: and now they just facilitate and probably mark it up. Um- 

Brian Munn: And probably change what's in it- Uh ... and change what they pay the staff and brought them down to part-time instead of full-time and all these things that trickle down.

Jeff Holden: Right. Right. I wanna take a, a, a pivot here. This is where we're gonna get to learn a little bit about Brian. Uh, who- My 

Brian Munn: favorite part ... 

Jeff Holden: who clearly, yeah. Who is, who's clearly passionate about- 

Brian Munn: Yeah ... 

Jeff Holden: you know, what he's doing and, and what you do at the stores. It, it's called the Beyond the Mission, and these'll be a little bit rapid fire, so they should be- Cool

pretty, pretty easy for you. Um, I wanna know this. I didn't have it highlighted as one of them, but because I'm talking with you, coffee or tea? 

Brian Munn: Oh, coffee. 

Jeff Holden: Ah. I, okay, good. I love it. 

Brian Munn: Coffee. 

Jeff Holden: All right. 

Brian Munn: Everybody that knows me knows that- 

Jeff Holden: Right ... 

Brian Munn: for sure. 

Jeff Holden: Favorite color? 

Brian Munn: Purple. 

Jeff Holden: Kings. Go Kings, right? 

Brian Munn: Oh, there you go.

Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Uh- 

Brian Munn: Nailed that ... 

Jeff Holden: beach, mountains, city, or a road trip? 

Brian Munn: Ooh. So I [00:48:00] think, you know, like I told you, I lived in Santa Cruz for- Santa Cruz, yeah ... for over a decade, and I would say surfing not beach. I always hated the beach, but I can't live without the mountains. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. 

Brian Munn: So that's a tough one. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. How about favorite local restaurant?

Brian Munn: Oh, man. Either Hawks or Josephine. 

Jeff Holden: Oh. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Two good choices. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. Really hard to choose between those two. 

Jeff Holden: Favorite movie? 

Brian Munn: Ooh. Oh, man. The Three Amigos probably. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. Guilty pleasure? 

Brian Munn: Shoot. Gu- 

Jeff Holden: We might have talked a little bit about that in the beginning of the show when we were just talking about some of our, uh- 

Brian Munn: So many things.

Right? So many guilty pleasures. But I mean, you know, just in terms of, like, rotting, you know, playing some video games with my son, you know, not doing anything else for hours. 

Jeff Holden: Uh-huh. You have a favorite video game? 

Brian Munn: We play Fortnite. Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Boy, that one's been around forever, hasn't it? 

Brian Munn: Yeah. I'm really bad at [00:49:00] it.

Jeff Holden: Boy, talk about standing the test of time, though. Yeah. It just, it has been there forever. 

Brian Munn: Yep. Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: What's one thing people would be surprised to learn about you? 

Brian Munn: I don't know about surprised, you know. I'm pretty, like, a driven, passionate person. Three years ago, I was in an accident where I'm partially paralyzed now, and I still am very, like, active, you know, even though that's a huge life-changing thing.

Like, I got back to work in four months, you know, after the accident and just kept pushing and going and doing PT and trying to stay moving, right? Mm-hmm. 'Cause it's a lot harder to walk now than it was before. So I mean, I don't know. It's just something that I'm... I guess would say more instead of, you know, surprised to learn, but more, you know, proud of, I guess.

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

Brian Munn: You know? 

Jeff Holden: It doesn't define us. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: What's a perfect day off look like for you? Oh, man. When you get one. [00:50:00] 

Brian Munn: Honestly, raining, and it doesn't mean I'm sitting inside with a blanket on the couch. I'll still be outside with coffee in the morning just kind of watching people do their thing, and then get out for a little walk, do some exercise.

And I just love the, you know, the change of weather, and honestly really like the foggy rain, you know, type of thing. So that to me is like the best day off. You know, no texts, no calls from the store, and I'll still check emails, that's okay, and, you know, check whatever online, but, but being able to just like slowly get up and have like, you know, really hot coffee that's really dark roast and strong, and then get out on a walk.

Jeff Holden: You sound like my wife. That's exactly, exactly what she wants. 

Brian Munn: Yeah, we can hang out. Bring her up to Auburn. 

Jeff Holden: That's right, and, and especially if we have that little bit of overcast, it's almost like a Carmel- Oh, yeah ... like or a Santa Cruz or a Monterey- Yes ... day. 

Brian Munn: Exactly. 

Jeff Holden: Uh, b- which is fun when we have them in Sacramento- That's true

'cause it's not that often that we get them. [00:51:00] And then last question, what are you grateful for? 

Brian Munn: I would say grateful for my health, being able to walk still, and, you know, my kids are good kids. Thank God I have, like, supportive kids. How many? So two. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. 

Brian Munn: Yeah, 10 and 17 now. 

Jeff Holden: Okay. 

Brian Munn: So yeah, just kind of like being able to still live life like that, you know?

Movement, so. 

Jeff Holden: Good. For somebody who's interested in learning more about the co-op and understanding it a little bit better than just its superficial name- Mm-hmm ... of, of what we all thought, you know- Mm-hmm ... is, is a nonprofit, but in fact it operates very much like a nonprofit, where, where would you suggest?

What would you... What should they do? 

Brian Munn: Well, a couple things come to mind. I would suggest, one, if you live far away, go to any one of your local co-ops', like, websites and just- Mm-hmm ... 'cause all of them are really good sources for the values. What are their bylaws? You can look up, you [00:52:00] know, how to become a membership, how many members, what's it like, all the activities, the community givebacks.

The websites are pretty well done now between the co-ops to talk about what we're doing and who we are and what we are, 

Jeff Holden: right? Back to your point of education, yeah. 

Brian Munn: Big time. And we've-- we just redid our website to be a little bit less busy 'cause there's so much information, so we've kind of streamlined the information, and I think it looks really good now.

It also has on there, like, our events. Like, as we're, you know, recording this, today's our Cheers for 10 Years, our 10-year at that location, and it's, bam, when you get on our website, it's right there to tell you it's happening, so you can get involved, you know? But then I would say the next step is go into your local co-op.

Go in and see what's happening. See how much staff are on the floor moving around, being busy, doing work. Notice the difference between that and what you see at other grocery stores necessarily. You know, not all independents are bad at all by any means. I think they take care of their people pretty well, you know, especially in the [00:53:00] natural foods.

Mm-hmm. That's kind of a part of that mission. But getting in there and knowing and learning, you know, about a lot of the co-opers that are in there. Some people have been there for 25, 30 years, almost as long as the co-op's been open, you know? things like that that are pretty cool to learn. Um, and then you get, just by going there you'll start to see the same people.

You know, you'll see your neighbors, you know, you'll see your community, and then you can get involved. You can sign up if you want. And again, I just wanted to, you know, say I didn't, I don't think I touched on this. When you sign up to be a member owner, it's not like Co- Costco when I say membership. You're not paying this ever-ending, you know, $300 a year or whatever it is, right?

Jeff Holden: That's a good point, yes. 

Brian Munn: You're, we have equity. So you pay equity. So you buy in. Ours is $300 lifetime, right? At REI it's only 25 bucks. They're huge enough they could do that. 

Jeff Holden: Right. 

Brian Munn: But ours is 300. You could pay $25 every six months to stay active, you know, and you have to shop, you know, once a year type of thing.

But then once you get to [00:54:00] 300 it stops and you're, you're in. You're fully vested. And if you wanna pull that equity out anytime you can. So your money's just safe in the co-op. You put a little bit of money in a savings account so to speak over there, you know? So, so I just wanted to clarify on that, that it's, it's not we're taking the money and we're like, "Okay, thanks.

We got some money in the account." No, we're holding it in a savings account for you type of thing. 

Jeff Holden: You know, and technically as a, as a nonprofit what we look at that as almost an endowment. 

Brian Munn: Yeah, true. 

Jeff Holden: You know? Yeah. It's money that sits over here. It doesn't go anywhere. You can't touch that money. 

Brian Munn: Yep. 

Jeff Holden: And you may be able to pull some interest off of it- Yeah

or some of the benefits of that money- Yeah ... but not that money. 

Brian Munn: Absolutely. We're not putting it, you know, it's literally in a savings account. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, it's not at 

Brian Munn: risk. We're not putting it in any, you know, even money market account let's say, you know. Because it's gotta be accessible in case people come in and need their $300.

Jeff Holden: Sure. 

Brian Munn: There's some co-ops though that get in trouble- 

Jeff Holden: I can 

Brian Munn: see 

Jeff Holden: how. 

Brian Munn: Yep ... don't operate well and get into problems, but most of the time the co-ops do a really good job. 

Jeff Holden: I have to believe, and, and I know we're, we're, we're wrapping here, but [00:55:00] again I keep thinking and, and looking at earned income and opportunities to make up funding that's been cut for nonprofits.

There's a, there's a business model here that could work for them as well. 

Western Health Advantage: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: For, for the nonprofit space. You look so similar- 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm ... 

Jeff Holden: you know, in terms of- Yeah ... what you do. You, you have a little bit of a philanthropic bent, almost a foundation-esque- 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm ... 

Jeff Holden: piece where you're giving back to the community as well, and you have a platform that most nonprofits...

They're not retail. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: And so they don't have this, this constituent every week that's coming through- Yeah ... to demonstrate where you, you, you share nonprofit experience there like with Alchemist. But, a- and I'm saying this for the benefit of those listening to think is the, is there a way that- There's some semblance of a membership type of thing for your organization.

Maybe it's a product or a service that what you do could work for your community, and they'll know. Yeah. You know, whatever that is. [00:56:00] That builds endowed funding. 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: And we have big nonprofits. Yeah. Not, not 52 million. That, that's a really big nonprofit w- for most of what we speak to. 

Brian Munn: True. 

Jeff Holden: Um, but n- nonetheless, you know, two, three, four, $10 million has the ability to do stuff like that, and we just have to start thinking differently, which is why I really wanted you on because of the, not only the perception, but because of the business model.

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: And I believe that there's a, a similarity, an opportunity, a crossover in some way, shape, or form to what you do to what our nonprofits are looking at, and so many struggle with, how do we keep this funding coming in? Get creative. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: You know, and let's look at other business models that look similar to, but not a for-profit business where you're just taking it and trying to run it back to a group of investors.

It's community-driven. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 

Jeff Holden: You know? And, and that's what you do so well, and I have to applaud you because you're the first time I've ever asked anybody about their organization, what's the best way to [00:57:00] learn, and you deflected into all co-ops. 

Brian Munn: Mm. 

Jeff Holden: You started with everybody else first. 

Brian Munn: Yeah.

Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: You know, instead of yourself- Yeah ... which, you know, I applaud that because you recognize the value of the co-ops in their individual communities. 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm. 

Jeff Holden: And that's a big deal. And knowing full well that, A, there's not enough of them, and we don't wanna lose our independent grocer who- 

Brian Munn: Mm-hmm ... 

Jeff Holden: many times is also working with the same farms.

Brian Munn: Absolutely, yeah. 

Jeff Holden: So- Yeah ... you know, congratulations on that. That was, uh- Thanks. 

Brian Munn: Yeah ... 

Jeff Holden: it, it, there's always something in a, you know, a conversation that is a bit unique. That was, that's a first in, in, what, 200-plus episodes that we've done- Yeah ... I've never had anybody start on the outside to bring it back in.

Brian Munn: Yeah. Well, yeah. So- I appreciate it, and I think this is just, again, these meetings, podcasts, whatever they are, is just slowly, hopefully gonna help push the education back, you know, to these community-owned businesses if we could. And nonprofits for sure, [00:58:00] but there's others out there, like I said, even independents are doing the right thing and, you know, one day hopefully we can just purchase them then so they don't get purchased by the wrong person, you know?

So- 

Jeff Holden: Or go away. You know, we're seeing- Or, or 

Brian Munn: go away in that area. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. Of course. We, we don't want these super stores- Yeah ... that are just stuck in- 

Brian Munn: Yes ... 

Jeff Holden: you know, in a corner someplace where there's now another food desert that we can't afford to have. 

Brian Munn: Exactly. 

Jeff Holden: Whether it be for senior or underserved or kids in a community- Mm-hmm

that needs to know and understand food differently. Well, Brian, thank you so much. You know, you, you've clarified what many misunderstand in some way, shapes, or form, but, you know, 53 years is, is a significant accomplishment. That is sustainability, and I know so many appreciate- so many people appreciate what the Sacramento Natural Foods Co-op does.

Mm-hmm. And to your team and some of those people 30-plus years with the organization, thank you to them, too, for their commitment to the, you know, well-being of what we, we put in our bodies and, uh, you know, to sustaining those farmers and everybody else. So we appreciate what you do. 

Brian Munn: Yeah. [00:59:00] Thank you.

Appreciate it. 

Jeff Holden: Now let's go make something better. 

Brian Munn: All right. 

Jeff Holden: Thank you for listening to the Nonprofit Podcast Network. We hope today's episode inspired you and gave you a deeper look into the work of our local nonprofits. If you believe in our mission to amplify their voices, please take a moment to leave us a positive review and share this episode with a friend.

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The Nonprofit Podcast Network is recorded and produced at Hear Me Now Studio with generous support from our outstanding partners. CapTrust, fiduciary advice for endowments and foundations, online at captrust.com. Western Health Advantage, local care with community impact. [01:00:00] Find the plan that fits at westernhealth.com.

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